Would you have called or fold ??

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Would you have called or fold ??

Postby ctzehock » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:10 pm

The very fist hand of a $1.50 SnG tournament. Would you have called or fold ?? What's the mistake that I made that could have prevented the loss ??

PokerStars Hand #75761678607: Tournament #518542200, $1.08+$0.27+$0.15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2012/02/17 15:25:59 ET
Table '518542200 1' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: cyrilchia (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: Scurt_FX (1480 in chips)
Seat 3: bubbalou3 (1600 in chips)
Seat 4: PRUM69 (1420 in chips)
Seat 5: txxeli (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: AAsanek72 (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: anton162 (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: MrMcFly555 (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: Efgen88 (1500 in chips)
bubbalou3: posts small blind 10
PRUM69: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to cyrilchia [Ad] [8s]
txxeli: calls 20
AAsanek72: folds
anton162: folds
MrMcFly555: folds
Efgen88: folds
cyrilchia: raises 40 to 60
Scurt_FX: calls 60
bubbalou3: folds
PRUM69: calls 40
txxeli: calls 40
*** FLOP *** [6c] [Qd] [3d]
PRUM69: checks
txxeli: checks
cyrilchia: checks
Scurt_FX: checks
*** TURN *** [6c] [Qd] [3d] [Kd]
PRUM69: checks
txxeli: checks
cyrilchia: checks
Scurt_FX: checks
*** RIVER *** [6c] [Qd] [3d] [Kd] [Jd]
PRUM69: checks
txxeli: bets 250
cyrilchia: raises 250 to 500
Scurt_FX: folds
PRUM69: folds
txxeli: raises 940 to 1440 and is all-in
cyrilchia: calls 940 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
txxeli: shows [Td 9d] (a straight flush, Nine to King)
cyrilchia: shows [Ad 8s] (a flush, Ace high)
txxeli collected 3130 from pot
txxeli wins the $0.27 bounty for eliminating cyrilchia
cyrilchia finished the tournament in 9th place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3130 | Rake 0
Board [6c Qd 3d Kd Jd]
Seat 1: cyrilchia showed [Ad 8s] and lost with a flush, Ace high
Seat 2: Scurt_FX (button) folded on the River
Seat 3: bubbalou3 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: PRUM69 (big blind) folded on the River
Seat 5: txxeli showed [Td 9d] and won (3130) with a straight flush, Nine to King
Seat 6: AAsanek72 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: anton162 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: MrMcFly555 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Efgen88 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
ctzehock
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Re: Would you have called or fold ??

Postby kklp » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:17 pm

there's no way you're folding the river, you only lose to one hand and one hand only. and at that stakes alot of weak players overplay their 4 flush so i really dont see how you're folding the river.
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Re: Would you have called or fold ??

Postby tcs » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:22 pm

very tough hand, how you play it. will end up losing money. unless u have a very discipline fold (if you Cbet on the flop and somehow he raise you)
otherwise i feel that you should have folded this hand after a strong bet or call it down in the river.


just my opinion..
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Re: Would you have called or fold ??

Postby soulari- » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:56 pm

I would have gone all in on the river myself. If he somehow calls the minraise then he would call an all in bet too. Dont be so results orientated. Think about what villain can have and decide if you want to bet or raise to extract value from lesser hands. The other side is bluffing to make a better hand fold.

Anyways raise bigger preflop if you're playing this hand. I wouldnt recommend playing this hand though. Not many flops make you happy. Especiallly in the early stages of the tournament which will be multiway most of the times. Hands like A2-A5 are better if u like to raise.
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Re: Would you have called or fold ??

Postby ctzehock » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:39 am

Thanks for all the opinions. I'm a beginner and the reason why I posted this hand, was hopefully to be able to learn from my mistake and improve my game.

@Soulari - I decided to play the hand cos i was at the CO position and i thought it was a reasonable hand to play. Anyway, why would A2 to A5 be better hands ??
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Re: Would you have called or fold ??

Postby soulari- » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:38 am

The equity is higher postflop because of the straightdraws u might get and for example 22x is considered a very dry board whereu could barrel for value. Also with a2-a5 u have easier decisions because ur kicker is better defined. A8 is in the middle which makes it more marginal.
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Re: Would you have called or fold ??

Postby xcaliblur » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:15 pm

At the river, it is just a cooler. No way anyone can fold the nut flush in an unpaired board. Not mention that your Ad blocks one of the possible straight flushes leaving only one possible hand combination that can beat you.

One thing though is it would be better to just muck the A8o preflop. Someone has limped already and you have 3 people to after you still - the button, sb and bb. In the smaller stakes the likelihood is that you will enter a multiway pot. And A8o is one of those hands that you want to avoid multiway pot situations- you either win a small pot or lose a big pot.

Contrary to how it feels like- Ace rag is a very bad hand to play. Try keeping a record of your hand history and if you review youd be surprised how many of these come from ace rags.

But that particular hand up there- yeah nothing can be done about it. No way anyone would fold there.
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Re: Would you have called or fold ??

Postby EmissaryofTruth » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:14 pm

Like others have said pre is a fold, unless you make it larger to get it HU and take it away with position.

Flop check is good because it probably hit someone's range, maybe hard.

I would semibluff turn because too much weakness has been shown and fold to a checkraise/raise. Vs good regs I might jam but at the micros best to bet/fold.

River is fine. I would shove > minraise but it depends on player. Some micro players fold to a shove more often than not while some call as long as they have 9d/10d. Problem with shoving is that you need to balance with some hands or else people know you are never bluffing... while min-raising makes bluffs cheaper but it's the micros.

Villain actually should bet turn IMO. If he is a thinking player he might put you on AK with maybe Ad and plan a checkraise because you would flat or even jam. But most of the time nobody has much or a medium strength hand and one or two players would even flat his bet, allowing him to build the pot and bet river hard. Also, what happens when another non J diamond falls? Bet/fold? Check/fold? Pretty bad either way. If he bets turn and another diamond falls he can just fold river because people usually have it at these stakes.
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Re: Would you have called or fold ??

Postby philivey » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:52 pm

the problem here is not your nut flush or his straight flush :roll:

its why are u playing A8 off suit very first hand??
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Re: Would you have called or fold ??

Postby mal » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:15 pm

maybe thats why u r a beginner.. veterens dun ask whether i can fold nut flush or quads or fullhse.. i dun even bother to explain wat u did wrong or correct. Actually it tilts me tremendous when ppl ask me this type of question then having a bad beat.
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Re: Would you have called or fold ??

Postby kklp » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:11 pm

mal,

why are you tilting when its not you in the hand? lol. let's help out a fellow kaki who needs some advice and keep an open mind. everyone started a beginner, even yourself included :)
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Re: Would you have called or fold ??

Postby VictorLau » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:43 pm

I believe that there is no way that you are not going to lose all your chips here. Just unthinkable to fold after the river.

What I can comment is:

1. If I want to steal the pot at Pre Flop I would raise to at least 100. At 3BB you will still get funny odd hands coming in
2. I would do a strong continuation bet after the Flop esp when I see a Queen. Anyway re raises or calling is a sure danger sign and I will probably fold at the Turn if he bets. Checking at Flop I think is not a good play (even if you miss you Ace etc). I think if you hit the Ace at the Flop you will also lose because your kicker is just too small. If an Ace hits the Flop I will still have a strong continuation bet cos I raised PreFlop, but if anyone calls, I will be out at the Turn.
3. Either you play aggressively at PreFlop & Flop or don't even get in.

All in all just fold your Ace 8 and go have a Starbucks!
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Re: Would you have called or fold ??

Postby philivey » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:57 pm

good comments :)

but one thing i dont understand is...

why starbucks? :o
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Re: Would you have called or fold ??

Postby VictorLau » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:06 pm

Go chill out lah - pokerstars . . starbucks . . both have "star" as a name. Also one of my frequent haunts.
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