Would you fold or call?

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Re: Would you fold or call?

Postby mal » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:14 pm

I just cannot understand why u fold just because villian chk raise u on the river. If villian has AA or KK, on the flop like this, u r gg to be felted anyway. This is cash game. Not tourney, just re-buy!! After the river chk raise, there is $17 plus in the pot, ur remaining stack is $7.54. Just call. I have played enough hands to know that there are times villian will chk-raise with busted straight draw or flush draw, or simply his ATs, when the river hits his ten will make him think that he has the best hand.

Ur read on ur opponent is very important. Pls do not take anyone advice on how to play this hand without a good read on ur opponent, else everytime someone chk-raise, straight away u put him on sets, or very strong hds; by doing that, u r gg to be exploited. In fact, no one ask u what type of player is villian? from what i read, everyone assumes that he is a shark or thinking player.
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Re: Would you fold or call?

Postby axel » Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:03 am

I doubt you need to worry about getting exploited at 10NL? Fact is, people simply don't check raise or even raise river without a nut type hand. Think about it, how often do you see any one check raise river with a busted draw? Most often, people will simply donk shove river when they miss their draw (besides on a 4455 board, what draw could villian possibly have?)

IMO a thinking player would not check raise river without the nut in this spot, since he knows he reps almost nothing in that spot. In addition, just because you have an overpair doesn't mean you always have to stack off postflop, especially if you are more than 100bb deep.
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Re: Would you fold or call?

Postby Darkmage12 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:49 pm

what's with him?
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Re: Would you fold or call?

Postby MJFX » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:06 pm

mal wrote:I just cannot understand why u fold just because villian chk raise u on the river. If villian has AA or KK, on the flop like this, u r gg to be felted anyway. This is cash game. Not tourney, just re-buy!! After the river chk raise, there is $17 plus in the pot, ur remaining stack is $7.54. Just call. I have played enough hands to know that there are times villian will chk-raise with busted straight draw or flush draw, or simply his ATs, when the river hits his ten will make him think that he has the best hand.

Ur read on ur opponent is very important..


Hehe. Lets assume no read. Why would a thinking player shove AT?
U mentioned its for max value thinking he had best hand. Its unlikely hero can bet-call a hand worse than AT. If hero has worse than AT, most likely its chk for showdown or bet-fold. For hero, he only beats a bluff, easy decision. I think hero can be exploited more by making hero calls, if he keep thinking he can be exploited when he get bluff. There are better spots la.
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Re: Would you fold or call?

Postby Phuturist » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:05 pm

I agree... After reading this post, I made greater emphasis to analyze the dynamics of a hand and trying to make sure I'm getting good spots to participate and make my cards count. Certainly made a difference to my game.
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Re: Would you fold or call?

Postby FateMortis » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:33 am

I think you just might have to fold here.
Do you have stats on villian?
Most likely he got you beat here with something like A5, A4, 55, 44, 45, 56 or so.
He c/c flop, c/c turn, c/rai river, pretty strong line to me.
If he's able to do it with air, I guess you got to give it to him.
QQ in this spot can't beat anything except a bluff.
Perhaps you should have 3bet pre to get more information on his UTG raise.
But most people take this line when they have the nuts in micro.
I'll show you an example where I have something similar to your situation.
Sad thing is, I called LOL. Lo and behold, he has the nuts! :D
Default for facing over-pot-size-shove on the river? (At least in the micros.)
Don't call with your bluff-catchers or you'll go broke.

Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #10969102

Hero (SB): $1.98 (99 bb)
BB: $2.40 (120 bb)
UTG+2: $0.97 (48.5 bb)
MP1: $2.08 (104 bb)
MP2: $2.67 (133.5 bb)
MP3: $3.82 (191 bb)
CO: $4.86 (243 bb)
BTN: $5.05 (252.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with [Ad] [Kh]
5 folds, BTN raises to $0.06, Hero calls $0.05, BB folds

Flop: ($0.14) [Qh] [As] [2c] (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.06, Hero calls $0.06

Turn: ($0.26) [9h] (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.16, Hero calls $0.16

River: ($0.58) [Ac] (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $3.88, Hero calls $1.70 and is all-in

Results: $3.98 pot ($0.19 rake)
Final Board: [Qh] [As] [2c] [9h] [Ac]
Hero showed [Ad] [Kh] and lost (-$1.98 net)
BTN showed [Ah] [Qc] and won $3.79 ($1.81 net)
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Re: Would you fold or call?

Postby MaTaKazer » Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:26 am

Thanks for the inputs guys. Ya pretty much a bluff catcher hence I didn't make the call.
I do not have adequate hand histories with villain to put him on certain type of player. One thing though, he left immediately after that hand.

Some people suggest 3betting with QQ, which I seldom do so in this stake. I find it hard to play a 3betted pot with QQ.
Somehow, it's more profitable for me to just flat call pf.
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Re: Would you fold or call?

Postby open&close » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:54 pm

i would have called
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