The Secret

Mike aka suitedpairs29 is a very skillful both ONLINE & LIVE poker player. He is sharing his poker experience with the folks here.

Re: The Secret

Postby suitedpairs29 » Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:04 pm

that is sick. on the flip side, he cant fold bottom pair no kicker on a one card straight board. still looking for my 10k
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Re: The Secret

Postby JoeyKnish » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:13 pm

You only fold pocket rockets for 4 reasons:

1) You have an insane gut feeling that you'll be sucked out post flop
2) You think you know the secret to the universe of poker when in fact you know nuts
3) You're a spider
4) All of the above
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Re: The Secret

Postby WarMage87 » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:49 pm

Mike, that is totally wrong thinking. I disagree with you.
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Re: The Secret

Postby suitedpairs29 » Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:48 am

WarMage87 wrote:Mike, that is totally wrong thinking. I disagree with you.


but this is based on sound logic, please state your case
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Re: The Secret

Postby felixleong » Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:57 pm

Postflop if the stack-pot ratio is over 10 and you are not committed (under 30% chips in) it can be right to fold AA on a very unfavorable board or if you have a good read that you are up against a set or 2 pair +++
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Re: The Secret

Postby felixleong » Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:58 pm

but still 27o is still the best hand to send people to the graves :p
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Re: The Secret

Postby WarMage87 » Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:52 pm

Hi Mike,

I know you are a good poker player, so i'll not go into the nitty gritty about what i'll be saying about folding pocket aces.

In what situations would you lay down AA?
(1) Flop comes a connected, suited board in a multi-way pot. For example, 8,9,10 all hearts and none of my aces has a heart. If i am in early position, i will normally check and see the action behind me. If there's a bet, raise, re-raise or actions similar to that, i'll muck my aces in a heart beat. Of course, this situation will never have occured if you played your aces correctly. (Limp-raising in early position or raising big to drive out players)
(2) In a satellite. Four seats are offered, five players are left. You are last to act (big blind) and there is a four-way all in, i won't mind folding AA here too.
(3) In a tournament. Similar situation. Of course, in this situation it really depends also.

Yes, poker is a game of skill but there's the luck element involved too (so called the gambling factor). That's why one can never win on skill alone in the short run. There has to be a culmination of factors that has to be taken into account to know when to lay down your AA.

Ultimately, playing hold'em is not just getting good cards, it's about calculating your odds, playing your position, understanding your opponents, your table image, stack sizes etc. Maybe i'll relate my experiences with AA. In a 1/2 cash game i played, i tend to limp with AA early position (UTG, UTG +1) because i know the probability of someone raising behind me on a loose table is just too damn high. So i happily wait for someone to raise. When someone raises, BANG, i reraise him. Often times, someone will call if they think i am trying to steal the pot but most of the time, i get their stack in the end. Of course, if my plan fails, i'll look like a stupid fool with AA in a 7/8 way pot. As of now, the pots i won with AA is so much more than the pots i lost with AA because i played it right (shoving and trapping with these kinds of hand).

The bottomline here is that if you expect to win big pots with such hands (AA), you have to be prepared to lose big pots with them too due to variance etc. The facts (at least over the long run) shows that it is always +EV to play with AA. The only point which i agree with you is knowing when to lay down such hands correctly post-flop or losing the least money by pot control and position play.

Of course, if you still disagree with what i said, we can play a simple game. I have AA, you pick any two cards from the deck (other than AA), we run a board. The one with the best five card draw wins. I lay you 2.5 : 1 odds on your money. This means for every $1 you invest and you win, i pay you $2.50. You wanna take up this challenge? Btw,I think you should know who i am by the way i just described how i play AA.

P.S I love to go professional in poker but the life in poker is just too damn tough. Haha!
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Re: The Secret

Postby felixleong » Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:19 pm

come on guys... get over this AA thingy hahahahaha
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Re: The Secret

Postby ohboy » Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:57 pm

boring sunday night, so here goes:

WarMage87 wrote:Hi Mike,

I know you are a good poker player, so i'll not go into the nitty gritty about what i'll be saying about folding pocket aces.

In what situations would you lay down AA?
(1) Flop comes a connected, suited board in a multi-way pot. For example, 8,9,10 all hearts and none of my aces has a heart. If i am in early position, i will normally check and see the action behind me. If there's a bet, raise, re-raise or actions similar to that, i'll muck my aces in a heart beat. Of course, this situation will never have occured if you played your aces correctly. (Limp-raising in early position or raising big to drive out players)


Ak/AQ of hearts, 88,99,TT....all possible callers of your "big raise".


(2) In a satellite. Four seats are offered, five players are left. You are last to act (big blind) and there is a four-way all in, i won't mind folding AA here too.
(3) In a tournament. Similar situation. Of course, in this situation it really depends also.

4 seats offered, there's not going to be a 4 way all in.

Yes, poker is a game of skill but there's the luck element involved too (so called the gambling factor). That's why one can never win on skill alone in the short run. There has to be a culmination of factors that has to be taken into account to know when to lay down your AA.


Luck = variance. Variance does not affect odds in long, OR short run. Thus, skill is proportional to your winrate in all timeframes.

Ultimately, playing hold'em is not just getting good cards, it's about calculating your odds, playing your position, understanding your opponents, your table image, stack sizes etc. Maybe i'll relate my experiences with AA. In a 1/2 cash game i played, i tend to limp with AA early position (UTG, UTG +1) because i know the probability of someone raising behind me on a loose table is just too damn high. So i happily wait for someone to raise. When someone raises, BANG, i reraise him. Often times, someone will call if they think i am trying to steal the pot but most of the time, i get their stack in the end. Of course, if my plan fails, i'll look like a stupid fool with AA in a 7/8 way pot. As of now, the pots i won with AA is so much more than the pots i lost with AA because i played it right (shoving and trapping with these kinds of hand).


You don't have to play it right to win more pots with AA than lose with them. It's statistically guaranteed.

The bottomline here is that if you expect to win big pots with such hands (AA), you have to be prepared to lose big pots with them too due to variance etc. The facts (at least over the long run) shows that it is always +EV to play with AA. The only point which i agree with you is knowing when to lay down such hands correctly post-flop or losing the least money by pot control and position play.

Of course, if you still disagree with what i said, we can play a simple game. I have AA, you pick any two cards from the deck (other than AA), we run a board. The one with the best five card draw wins. I lay you 2.5 : 1 odds on your money. This means for every $1 you invest and you win, i pay you $2.50. You wanna take up this challenge? Btw,I think you should know who i am by the way i just described how i play AA.

P.S I love to go professional in poker but the life in poker is just too damn tough. Haha!



You went pretty nitty gritty despite your comforting assurances=)

But the more important thing to note before posting an elaborate thesis on why you don't lay down AA preflop.....recognise satire when you see it. Lol.
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Re: The Secret

Postby newbie » Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:13 am

maybe.. there's just this 1% chance that i'm hoping for.. that ohboy just got hugely relevelled by WarMage87. but sadly, i don't think so.
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Re: The Secret

Postby WarMage87 » Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:21 pm

Hi,

People look at things differently. It's good that you have your viewpoints and i have mine. For all i know, i might very well be wrong with what i said. Maybe what you said is true and i have no business sharing my opinion here.

I am just happy with the thousands of dollars i made so far playing, not folding, with AA in both live and online games.
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Re: The Secret

Postby ohboy » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:45 pm

sigh

SATIRE

mike's not actually advocating you fold aces.
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Re: The Secret

Postby newbie » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:18 pm

are you serious, ohboy? omg this thread has made me fold AA preflop for the past 2 months! you mean this thread is just a joke? wth, mike, don't joke around on such serious matters! omg, i feel like such a newbie now (no pun intended).
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Re: The Secret

Postby felixleong » Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:56 pm

The highest level of poker is to fold pocket Aces but yet make money right?
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