What Would You Do? Maniac on the table

Mike aka suitedpairs29 is a very skillful both ONLINE & LIVE poker player. He is sharing his poker experience with the folks here.

What Would You Do? Maniac on the table

Postby suitedpairs29 » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:24 pm

You are playing a $1/$2 game at a buddy's house and find a new player at the table. A friend of a friend is playing maniacal: bluffing $100 of his $600 chips into a $35 pot and showing 5 high about 3 times already. Playing crazy and lots of hands. You move in a free seat and buyin for the max and about a couple of hours later build up your stack to about equal to the crazy man.

The maniac raises in middle position to his standard $7 preflop and you look down at A4 of clubs in late position and decide to play a pot. Flop comes A Q X with one club, maniac bets $15 bucks into the $17 pot and you call figuring to be ahead of his range. Turn comes another Q and he checks, you check as well trying to keep the pot small and also for fear of being check raised of what you think is the best hand. The river is another A and he shoves all in for $600++ into a $50-ish pot and its on to you. You are essentially playing for entire stack, question is ...

What Would You Do?

Side Note: Based on a true story so once I get enough responses I will post the results plus comments from Pros regarding the play of the hand
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Re: What Would You Do? Maniac on the table

Postby CML » Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:35 pm

2 clubs showing i'll call
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Re: What Would You Do? Maniac on the table

Postby suitedpairs29 » Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:07 pm

CML, please read again. Board is A Q X Q A and you have A4 of clubs. Obviously the flush is of no concern, it was initially on flop when there was a possibility of a backdoor flush draw, but now you have a full house. Do you call the huge overbet on the river drawing to a split pot, winning against a bluff or losing to Quad Queens?
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Re: What Would You Do? Maniac on the table

Postby Belousov » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:25 pm

something about this situation screams. FOLD!!! I don't like the fact that he checked on fourth after betting out 15$ on the flop. I mean if I were playing percentages I would call, but my instincts scream fold. probably thought you hit the full house on the river so you would call.
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Re: What Would You Do? Maniac on the table

Postby ben » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:01 am

This hand is quite similar to your 3 high flush lol.

I think the correct response is to start rapping " poker is fun... for everyone... except my opponents... they should have practised avoidance...."

then fold lol.
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Re: What Would You Do? Maniac on the table

Postby vaevictis » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:10 am

Fold.

Its a cash game.
Stacks are deep.
You haven't invested much.
You can find better spots.
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Re: What Would You Do? Maniac on the table

Postby suitedpairs29 » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:17 am

ben wrote:This hand is quite similar to your 3 high flush lol.

I think the correct response is to start rapping " poker is fun... for everyone... except my opponents... they should have practised avoidance...."

then fold lol.


lol at prahlad reference.

wow, he is really bad at rapping

i really wished lisandro kicked his ass at WSOP 2006
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Re: What Would You Do? Maniac on the table

Postby ben » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:21 am

lol i feel he is the guy who really patented the overbet shove.
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Re: What Would You Do? Maniac on the table

Postby suitedpairs29 » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:45 am

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the replies and letting me pick your brains a bit. This scenario happened to an intern on the popular radio podcast The Circuit which can be found on http://www.cardplayer.com. Its a really good show hosted by Scott Huff, WPT Player of the Year Gavin Smith and Joe Sebok. He made the call and the maniac turned over quad bitches. Joe Sebok argued that since that maniac had been giving so much action that a call would be warranted, but only if you were almost certain that he had a bluff. Calling off all your chips for just the split pot is unneccesary and you could find better spots. Gavin Smith said that he would fold every single time because he says that what does this person have more often, the nuts or a bluff, and the answer is that he has the nuts most of the time. Why would the guy shove his entire stack to win a paltry $50 bucks, the only hands that are calling him are quads or a boat, so he must have something good. He had been overbetting pots alot, but never with his entire stack. Plus, as an earlier post mentioned, the check on the turn was really scary.

Personally I would have been very torn and just have my stomach turn when I fold my Ace. Splitting the pot is just not worth putting your entire stack in.

I think this is also a case of when you here this story and a guy ends with, "well I called and he turned over quads. i mean, c'mon man, i had to call, i had a friggin boat!" You will here this sentiment from most amateurs and some of the intermediate players. You have to sometimes step back and look at everything at a perspective: if you win, you get your money back, which isnt alot, but if you lose, you lose everything. Poker is about risk/reward, and here, the risk cleary over shadows the reward.

:ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek:
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Re: What Would You Do? Maniac on the table

Postby Belousov » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:54 am

woo hoo my instincts, for once, were right. I will have to check out that podcast it seems like it might be rife with poker knowledge. Although personally I don't like gavin's play style although he is sooooooooo much better than me
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Re: What Would You Do? Maniac on the table

Postby laserspy » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:28 am

IMHO, the possibility of him having quad queens is less than 1%, odds calculator shows that.

Though the check on the turn seems pretty scary, but still I would love to go with the probability in this case, as my chance of winning is 97.7% with the strongest boat on the hand.

If I ended up losing to a quad, I would have just told myself: "Well, at least I paid for my 97.7% plus to keep him honest". He might just have a queen and made 3 of a kind at the turn uncertain he had the nuts, and the ace came along and gave him boat, therefore his all in push as he thought he had the nuts.

As Zeebo theorem states: "No player is capable of folding a full house on any betting round, regardless of the size of the bet.” Maybe that player in Zeebo's theorem applied to him in that game?

But anyway did it resulted in him having the quads? :O
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Re: What Would You Do? Maniac on the table

Postby Integrity » Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:46 pm

I'm no expert but I'd be calling. Queens doesn't really match his play. The first bet looks like A-X. The flat call is common for second pair so when the queen comes on the turn he may have you on the trips.
Then the ace comes and he has full house; bets high in case he really is up against a q; and maybe throw you off your hand if it's an ace.

If he'd had pocket queens, I'd have expected a bigger (than standard) pre-flop bet.

It's a big bet to call for possibly half, but against a maniac - I think it's the right one.
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