Govt moves to curb remote gambling in Singapore

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Re: Govt moves to curb remote gambling in Singapore

Postby 2RandomCards » Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:51 pm

The government obviously wont listen to many people whining, groaning, moaning and complaining about tighter laws. If they wish to battle on legal grounds and intellect, that's the battle field we should be moving on to fight. So, would anyone be interested in meeting up in mid or late Dec to discuss and submit an academic argument to protect the interests of poker players in SG? PM me if yes ty
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Re: Govt moves to curb remote gambling in Singapore

Postby ebiehash » Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:07 pm

Looks like Sg is following HK's path.

Like some quick thinking forum-ers have said, online betting with these soon to be outlawed websites, present a potential source of income for the Sg govt. I highly doubt that any appeal will hold any weight.. or another way of saying.. your time is better spend doing more productive things.

That being said, there are other ways to transac / access soon to be outlawed sites.
But this discussion is better held in private.

Can bros who are more tech savvy pop an educating PM to this newbie?
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Re: Govt moves to curb remote gambling in Singapore

Postby Rogrecal » Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:18 pm

dilkkz wrote:Well, I had some free time on my hands today, and I know most people aren't going to care about this, so I just drafted out a quick letter to the office. fwiw I might be wasting my time but hey at least we tried.

Code: Select all
To whom it may concern,

I am writing to you to offer my views regarding the regulation of online gaming. Personally, I do engage frequently in playing online, specifically, poker. Poker (The Hold Em variant, specifically), is considered to be a game requiring different sets of skills in order to gain an advantage versus other players in the game. As such, players who have a greater knowledge of the game will have an edge, and thus will show a higher success rate more often than others who have little or no comprehensive knowledge about the game. Yes, there's no denying that the game does involve an element of luck, but players who have a better knowledge of the game can minimize the luck element in the game, or also known as variance, to exploit the greater knowledge they have in the game. Many professionals of the game can acquire a stable win rate and live off the salary made from playing poker professionally, including a few people I know personally here in Singapore.

I am a regular in one of the most active poker strategy forums on the internet, the two plus two forums, and have read about similar conditions of banning online gaming in most states in the US. This has caused many people to find loopholes in the system, where they would bypass the system using illegal methods (like a VPN which bypasses the IP blocking system, as far as I know) even after the US DOJ (Department of Justice) has blocked access to gaming sites, which doesn't make the intended effect of completely shutting down internet gaming as effective as intended.

I have just came back from studying abroad for a couple of years in Denmark, and the regulation of gaming in the country, in my opinion, offers not just a cost-effective method of collecting tax revenue from the gaming sites by issuing permits to reliable and trustworthy sites, but they also use that tax revenue to fund problem gaming initiatives, while allowing players to enjoy the game they love, and allow professionals to retain their jobs. Personally, I considered poker to be a part-time job for me apart from being a student, where it allowed me to earn a substantial sum of money to support my studies abroad.

There is an ongoing discussion on the local poker forums, Pokerkaki, about this issue, and many players on the forums are more than willing to offer their take on the situation. I certainly do hope that us, players, are also considered to be 'stakeholders' of the situation, and that both sides of the issues can be taken into account and weighed.

Once again, thank you for taking the effort to view my take on the issue.

Best regards,
D


flame away, fellow sgpreans :)




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Re: Govt moves to curb remote gambling in Singapore

Postby Brasstal » Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:11 pm

I am in the works of trying to discuss these developments with the appropriate personnel on steps we can take etc.
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Re: Govt moves to curb remote gambling in Singapore

Postby Rogrecal » Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:22 pm

Brasstal wrote:I am in the works of trying to discuss these developments with the appropriate personnel on steps we can take etc.


Jia you!!!
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Re: Govt moves to curb remote gambling in Singapore

Postby rfgs » Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:03 pm

Brasstal wrote:I am in the works of trying to discuss these developments with the appropriate personnel on steps we can take etc.


Thanks for the effort and do keep us updated on the situation.

If the government really regulate and banned online poker/gambling, what are the chances for PS to shut its door on SG players like what they did with the US players?

Lastly, is there any chance that the Singapore government can enforce PS not to allow SG players?
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Re: Govt moves to curb remote gambling in Singapore

Postby NOTNobody » Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:17 am

I've paid the annual levy for RWS and during the 1 year free entry, I visit RWS almost on a daily basis for the first 3 mths. Bankroll S$500 per trip, lose trip > win trip. Eventually, I've lost S$15,000 over a span of 7 months. Although there are times where I win close to 5 times my bankroll, there are more times where I lose my bankroll early and was forced to leave early or withdraw more money.

Then, I picked up Poker. I deposited US$20 and survive for 1 week. Over the course of 5 months, I had deposited around US$500 on both Stars and Tilt, to take up some of their special offers. Although I am left with US$2.29 on Stars, I daresay it had been a pleasant experience thus far. My best win was more than 3000% ROI in a US$1.10 NLHE 6-max turbo. To achieve this kind of ROI in a casino, I will need to play slots and hit jackpot. Now that's the difference between playing and gambling. If I may add on, playing only $1.10 with maximum lines on a 2 cent machine gives you not more than 10 (I'm being generous) spins.

I don't believe I am good enough to be a consistent winning player in poker. But I don't have to play on stakes out of my comfort zone. Since I play tournaments more frequently than cash and SNG, I can always stop once I drop out of the tournament, losing only the entry fee. However, when I visit the casino, I might spend more time on the premise to account for the traveling time. Sometimes, spending more time on a losing trip = losing more $. It is a lot more dangerous than online poker. It takes a lot of discipline to leave on a losing trip, but the harder part of playing in a casino is when to stop while you're ahead. Whereas in poker, I stop once I drop out of a tournament because of a bad beat. I know instinctively that I will become tilted and hence I will forbid myself from joining another tournament. And I also will stop my day when I cash a big one in any tournaments. It takes hours to finish a tournament anyway.

What the government should focus on is responsible gaming not a complete ban. A ban on online Poker would force people to take on a more expensive alternative. And the more expensive alternative is readily available. If I can't play online poker, I will visit the casino and gamble. If my levy expires, I will gamble on cruise or travel to gamble. And yes, gambling includes playing poker, baccarat, blackjack, slots, roulette, craps etc... It isn't so much of being defiance, but just a way of life for some of us. Even if we know gambling is a vice, we still do it because there is nothing much to do when you have too much money, and there is no quicker way to get money if you have little money. Which is why people queue up for 4D and Toto, since it's their hope to make it big without doing much of anything.

In poker, to make it big, you need to at least be above average. To earn in Cash and SNGs, you need to be a great player putting in the hours. To win in a tournament, you need to be a great tournament player with a lot of luck and have the mental fortitude to outlast the rest. It is a mental sport more than it is a vice to me. It is the kind of game where you can literally win when you get better at it, unlike in Toto/4D/Sweepstake (where online betting is allowed).
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Re: Govt moves to curb remote gambling in Singapore

Postby boymalap » Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:47 am

Sad to say, if the gov decide to handcuff us from online poker,we can just do so much to appeal.at the end of the day,we have to be prepared if the flip goes theory way.i mean,poker is a passionate hobby and for some a means to live. We have to be prepared for the worst.zzz

Grinding live few next year
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Re: Govt moves to curb remote gambling in Singapore

Postby DM101 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:00 pm

You guys can see more interesting comments by the locals on this link.

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/singapore-gove ... 15619.html
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Re: Govt moves to curb remote gambling in Singapore

Postby philivey » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:10 pm

I got a friend who comfortably makes his living betting on sports on betting sites who used to laugh at others when recession hits
Singapore, saying his job is damn safe and "recession free".. how the tables have turned :o
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Re: Govt moves to curb remote gambling in Singapore

Postby Brasstal » Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:42 pm

Just my point of view and not representing anyone/company's else-

It will take at least a while thinking 6-18 months for the new laws to actually be enacted...

For now nothing is set in stone yet but yes mentally preparing steps to be taken, eg moving overseas etc can be considered but imho just take a wait and see approach.

Spoken to a few friends in the legal industry and this is what will happen.

1st Stage- talking 1st draft of the bill
Announcement made
Feedback from citizens,stakeholders etc

2nd Stage - Drafting and passing of the law
There will be the 1st, 2nd and 3rd reading before the law is passed and this requires time perhaps early next year.

3rd Stage - Passing and enactment of the law
Once the law is passed there will be a time period before law is enacted. Could be anything between 3-12 months?

Reading the reports I wouldn't say to keep calm but they did mention there might be exceptions. All I can say is we follow closely as these developments take place rather than jump to any conclusions about money frozen or access limited etc. We know that whatever happens Stars will always do right by its players come what may. Agreed?

Come on guys we are poker players and we use information to make decisions so lets do the same for this predicament we are in.

I have a few things in mind for us to do/take and will share it in a day or two. I doubt it will have much effects but even if our game gets classified into the same law I think we still need to be heard.
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Re: Govt moves to curb remote gambling in Singapore

Postby philivey » Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:55 pm

Announcing the measures at the third Singapore symposium on casino regulation and crime, he acknowledged that they may not be "foolproof". But they will impede access and "send a clear signal of the regulatory stance" in Singapore, he said.

There may, however, be exemptions to the blanket restrictions. The Government will be holding a public consultation from today on the regulatory framework and whether gambling on some sites should be allowed.

Such an exemption may come after "careful consideration" and there will be tight control on who can access these sites. A total ban, Mr Iswaran said, "may also create problems, with more activities going underground".



news asiaone.com
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Re: Govt moves to curb remote gambling in Singapore

Postby razey » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:05 pm

Hi bryan,
Really looking forward to your ideas and suggestions. Hope the poker community can rally to do our best to maintain the presence of online poker in Singapore.
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Re: Govt moves to curb remote gambling in Singapore

Postby felixleong » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:58 pm

I just hope they dun do it like how party poker banned sg players from their site and client in 2007
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