How to play pocket queens?

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How to play pocket queens?

Postby CML » Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:35 am

Alright, take for example all of these scenarios are cash games.
Blinds are $1/$2 and presume everyone has $300 at the start of the hand

You are in the SB with QQ.
1 limper and tight-agressive player raises to $8 on the button.
You chose to re-raise to $25
action folded to button who calls.

Flop: 10 J 5 rainbow

You bet out $50
Button min raises to $100
You ??

The point here is your putting the villian on AK/AQ kind of hand or either pocket 10 or jacks since he is tight.(He would probably re-raise if he had a better hand preflop)
If you chose to call the raise, what will your action be on the turn if the turn is a blank and sb shoves?
If you chose to re-raise you are probably going to only get called if you are beat OR maybe AJ(10%)
So what will your decision be at this point of time??
It is really tough to fold right now so..
You bet out initially to test the queens, and you get a MIN RAISE back to you.
So if we go through this hand again, Villian's point of view:

I raised preflop and the small blind 3 betted me, could he be making a play or does he has a hand?
I hit top pair on the flop and he bets the pot.. mmmn i should raise here to test are my jacks good.. he might be on AK making a c-bet or he might have it, i dun think he will bet out so much on a set tho, so im probably drawing live
If he re-raises.. mmmn i guess i'll just fold

or

I raised preflop and sb 3 betted me, i hit my set what so i just min-raised him praying he has an over pair and shoves all in.


So back to the point, what is a good decision to make at this point of time?

You will need to call $50 more into a $252 pot.(preflop: $25 + $25 + bb) + (flop: $50 + $100 + $50<- the amt u need to call)
You are getting 5 to 1 to your money. If you call this bet both of you will have $175 on the turn to play around with.
If you just call and hit ur set on the turn, you might not have the best hand cause he might have AK which gives him the nut straight.
So seriously how should you play the hand presuming this guy is tight-aggresive and your table image is something more towards the laggy side maybe a 34%vpip and 17% pfr

Sorry for the long post and if this might sound confusing.
Also, thanks for reading up till this part if you have done so =D

cheers
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Re: How to play pocket queens?

Postby colorwolf » Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:12 pm

I'm all in.

chances are he's only holding AJ, if he has anything better you're screwed anyways. rebuy and try again.
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Re: How to play pocket queens?

Postby CML » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:25 pm

the point is not this man dude. i mean in the long run, will going all in be the right decision? If he folds u're beating whatever he has. If he calls your behind most of the time =/ you lose to pocket 10/J/K/A, you also lose to 10 J. but still thanks for replying
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Re: How to play pocket queens?

Postby BenaiahLim » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:45 pm

I would fold. Because you have shown much strength pre-flop. and also, you arent getting the right pot odds to call..

throw the queens. That would be the best descision
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Re: How to play pocket queens?

Postby CML » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:14 am

mmn okay, but beniah dun you think someone with KJ/AJ might do the same move here? mmmn
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Re: How to play pocket queens?

Postby PoKerArt » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:38 am

you probably lost the hand but i would still shove
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Re: How to play pocket queens?

Postby CML » Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:29 am

lol i just made up the hand cause recently i have been running into this kind of dodgy situations alot of times. OMG ITS POKERART!
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Re: How to play pocket queens?

Postby AsiaPokerAcademy » Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:38 pm

I disagree with the previous replies.

First, raise more pre-flop. $32 or so.

If you shove, you will likely only get called by players with better hands, and an occasional AJ. The way they played smells more like AA or a set to me than AJ.

I would flat call his raise and re-evaluate on the turn. If your opponent bets big or shoves on a blank turn, I think you can safely fold against most tight aggressive opponents. However, if you suspect he is bullying you, your plan should be to stack off on blank turns, and save money on scary turns. If your opponent slows down, i'd make a bet and try to take down the pot or charge his AJ, KJ, or other weak hands.
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Re: How to play pocket queens?

Postby PoKerArt » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:32 pm

hero plays 34/17,
what you do if he bets $65 on the turn
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Re: How to play pocket queens?

Postby BenaiahLim » Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:20 pm

How can you shove all-in and expect the person to have the weaker hand?
How can you shove all-in and say "oh if he turns out AA or something bigger than my hand, then oh well. I'll rebuy."
Thats gambling.

CML you cannot shove all-in or even make calls if you are not sure you can get the pot.

Yes, maybe you should have raised bigger pre-flop.

If I were in your shoes, I would have re-raised him pre-flop and at the flop. And even after showing so much strength, he still continues to bet on the turn, you should throw away the queens. (given that he is a tight-aggressive player)

However, the chip stack of only $300 would not allow you to make such decisions because if you re-raised his $100 at the flop you might as well go all-in.
But you see, you are not sure of what he has. So its best to fold.
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Re: How to play pocket queens?

Postby PoKerArt » Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:01 pm

folding could be fine if you play a lot of table like 10+ but if you play 1-2 tables,your overall strategy should be playing in such a way that shoving there is +ev
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Re: How to play pocket queens?

Postby newbie » Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:51 pm

i think i'm stacking off here. the fact that you're 34/17 and 3betting the BTN on the SB is enough to warrant that your 3betting range is wider than premium hands. the BTN knows well enough that you're folding anything short of an overpair on that board even with a minraise. plus, i think it's not often enough that he flatted with AA and KK here since you're very loose. even for AK and AQ, with your kind of stats, it's more plausible for him to 4bet shove preflop to get his money in good. i think the only possible hands you should be scared of are 10s and JJ.. but still, i agree with pokerart, i think a shove with QQ there should be marginally +ev.

just my 2 cents.
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Re: How to play pocket queens?

Postby Sapiens86 » Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:19 am

what would you do depends on who ur opponent is, his stealing/isolating tendencies, and your your 3bet history with him...

most TAG would take ur bet on the flop as a continuation bet and and response by raising you out of the hand.
i would think u are ahead of his hand range most of the time here.

i would either re raise him on the flop, or call the raise and try to check-raise him on the turn assuming a safe cards falls.
Again, it very much depends on what you perceives his hand ranges to be.
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Re: How to play pocket queens?

Postby vaevictis » Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:18 pm

yea i agree to stack off here. Folding is a little weak here.

I wonder why no one has thought of alternative lines to stack off.

peel the $50 raise, and then shove.
peel the $50 raise, checkraise shove the turn.
peel the $50 raise, play passively to induce bluffs.

Since u plan to stack off, you are already behind to whatever hands that you are behind. However u are way ahead of any bluffs and your plan is to extract MAX using +EV lines aganist those bluffs.
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