straight flush at the 2/4 tables live at turning stone resor

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straight flush at the 2/4 tables live at turning stone resor

Postby Belousov » Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:59 pm

OK so let me preface this by saying my favorite hand is 54 of diamonds, as such at some points I will play the hand when all intuition would tell me to fold, well this time it paid off.

playing 6 max blind are 2/4 I have been playing for six straight hours I sat down with 400 and my stack has grown to near 1K the guy to my right has been there for about an hour and he plays ABC poker at all times, he raises 3X BB with 77-AA or AK, AQ so here it goes

before the hand he has around 800$ my stack was around 1K so I have him covered

He raises 3X the BB
MY hole cards are 54 diamonds
I re-raise making 16 more to go the board comes out

6d3d5c

HE raises the pot which is 56$ I call
so right now the pot 168$

the turn
4s
this time he bets 60 into the pot I re raise forty more he calls

the pot is now is now 368$

The river comes down
2d I think I actually shit my pants by the way
with his meek raise on the turn I had put him on a diamond draw
he checks it to me
I bet 200 into the pot and he waits an inordinately long amount of time ( I wonder if people should tell fish that waiting for a long time is usually a dead give away that they have a monster) finally he re raises 600 I look at him for awhile and tell him "your kings are no good" I then re raise all in he insta calls and turns over AdKd the nut flush I then proceed to flip over my straight flush at which point he tells me I am garbage at this game that I could reraise with trash like that etc.


I don't care that pot was worth almost 2 K ;P
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Re: straight flush at the 2/4 tables live at turning stone resor

Postby suitedpairs29 » Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:15 am

lol at this donk thinking that you were raising because of the value of your hand.

lol indeed.

first of all, you flop an open ended straight flush draw and a pair

you get an amazing card on the turn which gives you a draw to a full house as well.

at this point, he is dead to 5 diamonds that dont give you a straight flush.

when you see him again please say that your friend in singapore asked him to get some funky STD and die

also, if anybody calls me garbage at a poker table, i am opening a can of whoop ass

btw, very nice hand sir

on a side note, i hit a straight flush as well in our game. but it was in omaha, so i guess it doesnt count
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Re: straight flush at the 2/4 tables live at turning stone resor

Postby ohboy » Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:59 am

well

the hand was really disguised by pure luck. Most of the time, re-raising with 4/5 suited is uusually just a bad move. You lucked out with the straight/flush draw.

But by the turn, i don't really know what that guy thinks you have. Courageous semi bluff preflop with pocket sixes? Big pairs? The fact that you didn't try to raise him out of the draw probably made him a little suspicious you made a smaller flush draw.


The long pause on the river was probably him trying to persuade himself that there's no way you would have raised with 4/5 suited pre-flop. Your bets have seemed strange all the way,your river bet looks like you made a flush, and he's trying to talk himself into raising instead of chickening out with a call.


He's probably right though, that you're prob gonna lose alot if you keep raising low suited connectors. What he doesnt know is that you only do it with 4/5 diamonds, so its not really a leak=)
In poker, frustration sets in all the time. Some ppl can't handle it as well as others. Whatcha gonna do.
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Re: straight flush at the 2/4 tables live at turning stone resor

Postby suitedpairs29 » Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:18 pm

ohboy, i think what happened here was that bel got lucky all the way

lucky that the donk did not reraise with AK preflop

lucky to smash the flop

lucky to smash the turn

and lucky to super smash the river

of course the donk is correct that reraising with 45 suited is a losing play, but bel is no dumbo. he doesnt do it coz its pretty to look at, he does it coz he can mask his hand and when you hit a flop, you can really take someone for all his money

lets not forget that bel was in position. and i doubt it that this guy even put bel on 45 suited, he just long paused for added effect. i did the same thing yesterday when i hit my straight flush and contemplating a reraise.
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Re: straight flush at the 2/4 tables live at turning stone resor

Postby DM101 » Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:56 pm

Yo Belousov. U lucky boy with a lady Luck by your side. :shock:
Is this your 1st straight flush while playing LIVE poker?
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Re: straight flush at the 2/4 tables live at turning stone resor

Postby ohboy » Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:30 pm

suitedpairs29 wrote:
of course the donk is correct that reraising with 45 suited is a losing play, but bel is no dumbo. he doesnt do it coz its pretty to look at, he does it coz he can mask his hand and when you hit a flop, you can really take someone for all his money




i dunno. Same excuse can be given for raising A7 suited. And i'm pretty sure that's a losing play.
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Re: straight flush at the 2/4 tables live at turning stone resor

Postby Belousov » Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:06 pm

Thank you all for reading and yes ang that was my first straight flush in live action. Yes ohboy I very well aware that raising with 54 suited is a losing proposition, at that point in time I have already built my stack up quite nicely and with position and a pretty solid read of the guy beforehand I was 95% certain I could outplay him after the flop. You know that old cliche saying knowledge is half the battle well in poker it is more like 75% and with position even if I am dominated pre-flop I know I can get out if I miss the flop completely or if I hit it take a large chunk of his stack, I know there is know way I he can put me on a 54 suited because I have played a pretty tight game all night. It has been my experience that in cash game play most of those memorable pots that I take down usually does not start with having a monster pre-flop, of course barring the all-in AA vs. KK scenario anyone remember sam farha KK vs Greenstein's AA K on the flop and Sammy took down a quarter mill or so (sorry just a reminiscence). Of course I may have been influenced by watching the 2006 ToC with daniel negreanu I have also been watching Annette_15 play in some MTT's (such an amazing player). Sorry I took such a long time vindicating my play. Good luck at the tables.
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Re: straight flush at the 2/4 tables live at turning stone resor

Postby vaevictis » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:07 am

Ohboy,

In deep stacks,
re-raising A7s is a losing play because u wont know where u stand after the flop.
re-raising 45s is a much better play because your hand is disguissed and speculative hands often make big hands that win big pots especially in position.

Raising 45s is so much different from A7s, and its a very different play all together. One is a bad play, the other is a good one considering the stack sizes, 200bb deep. likewise for reraising low pocketpairs 22-88 because when you hit a flop hard, you can take his stack almost all the time.


And yes, ill 3bet anytime with 45s but not A7s in position when stacks are deep, and I do it everytime given the opportunity. I believe its positive ev over over a long run, buy taking down pots with a cbet or winning a huge pot more often enough to cover the small losses
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Re: straight flush at the 2/4 tables live at turning stone resor

Postby suitedpairs29 » Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:14 am

^^^^^^^ yeah! what he said!

i was supposed to reply that exact same thing till vaevictis stole my mind!

curse you! curses!!!!!

:ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek:
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Re: straight flush at the 2/4 tables live at turning stone resor

Postby ohboy » Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:37 pm

what i meant to say was, in this situation, the only hand you can make money off is really a straight flush over nut flush.

no other hand will get paid off well.
Big pairs/sets will fold to your obvious flush. Ditto for made straights. Only time you get paid off is if the opponent has exactly what he had...top flush.

With that in mind, exactly how much value are you really getting by raising with 45s?


if your purpose in reraising was purely to mask your hand with the intention to stack him on the flop, an A7 would have had the exact same effect on any hand he woulda held, short of a bluff. Make the flush, and he folds. Only time he may not fold is if he had K high flush. You're not going to stack him anyway else.


I dunno how to convey my view on this particular hand properly. What i'm trying to say is that the percieved value of re-raising 45s is probably much higher than the real value. There's exactly one hand in the whole game that will allow you to stack him. He just happened to have it.

I can't really imagine AQs and below calling a re-reraise. Can you?

maybe i'm just reading too much into this.
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Re: straight flush at the 2/4 tables live at turning stone resor

Postby vaevictis » Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:35 am

You see 45s value only on a straight flush flop.

I see 45s value in a much deeper situation:
1) PF: you can reraise and and take down pots preflop, which is a great situation
2) postflop, you are playing a speculative hand in position with deep stacks, something i'd prefer against playing overpairs with only 2 outs or less to improve when deep.
3) you get great value when hitting trips, straight draws, flush draws. When you play your draws aggresively and dont hit them, you can bluff and get greater value.
4) else, in position, you can control pot size easier. You can lose less and win more in the LONG RUN, and not just by viewing 45s getting max value only on a straight flush board vs top flush.

and raising 45s is so much different from raising A7s.
When an ace or 7 hits, what would you do? is your hand good? are u going to play a big pot, especially its a reraised pot? When you play reraised pots preflop, your aim is to play big pots and win big pots.
Your value from raising A7s is perhaps to hit a flush draw and/or trip 7s. and take down pots preflop for a bluff. Else its a very high reversed implied odds hands to play with.
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Re: straight flush at the 2/4 tables live at turning stone resor

Postby Belousov » Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:37 pm

Vaevictis pretty much stated everything I needed to say, lol. The only thing I can state is that position was key for me if I don't have position I don't call or raise those cards would go straight in the muck, being able to control the pot size and having a stack that deep I felt comfortable with the play. Secondly I didn't need the straight flush, as you well know I have the lead by the turn and if a K or an A falls on the river am still going to make a healthy profit if not I have loaded the pot enough with aggressive play even if he folds on the river the pot is still quite large. This is why I am apt to play suited connectors hard when I have a good read on my opponent in good position, I want the pot loaded, even knowing I am behind pre flop and with position I can make sure it doesn't get out of hand. I guess this may be a better tournament play but that is what I primarily am a tournament player. Honestly though with a Deep stack in this position I like the hand better than say 99 1010 because if I am beat preflop I am basically I am praying for one of two cards. Honestly it is a play that I would have never tried earlier in my poker career, but you to quote Daniel Negreanu "if the best cards win all the time then Mike Matusow and Phil Hellmuth would everything" 'P

[2d] [3d] [4d] [5d] [6d]

also ohboy the pot was at 368$ before the river I considered,starting with 5d4d and taking down a pot that size is desirable enough, and I don't think there is a chance in hell he could even muse over the fact for more then ten seconds that I was playing 5d4d that would be such a donkish move ;p
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