What did I do wrong?

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What did I do wrong?

Postby mudspot » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:08 pm

PokerStars Game #12505969839: Tournament #63466116, $4.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (150/300) - 2007/10/08 - 08:56:31 (ET)
Table '63466116 5' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: TagZeroNet (8332 in chips)
Seat 2: Sandman4028 (3857 in chips)
Seat 3: ThomasSinus (5080 in chips)
Seat 4: cam4711 (16697 in chips)
Seat 5: Snuzy (10413 in chips)
Seat 6: PBTHEBEST (10231 in chips)
Seat 7: JTSOONER (13346 in chips)
Seat 8: mudspot (4135 in chips)
TagZeroNet: posts the ante 25
Sandman4028: posts the ante 25
ThomasSinus: posts the ante 25
cam4711: posts the ante 25
Snuzy: posts the ante 25
PBTHEBEST: posts the ante 25
JTSOONER: posts the ante 25
mudspot: posts the ante 25
ThomasSinus: posts small blind 150
cam4711: posts big blind 300
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mudspot [As] [Ac]
Snuzy: folds
PBTHEBEST: folds
JTSOONER: folds
mudspot: raises 900 to 1200
TagZeroNet: folds
Sandman4028: folds
ThomasSinus: folds
cam4711: calls 900
*** FLOP *** [4d] [Tc] [5c]
cam4711: checks
mudspot: bets 2910 and is all-in
cam4711: calls 2910
*** TURN *** [4d] [Tc] [5c] [6d]
*** RIVER *** [4d] [Tc] [5c] [6d] [3d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
cam4711: shows [8c] [7c] (a straight, Four to Eight)
mudspot: shows [As] [Ac] (a pair of Aces)
cam4711 collected 8570 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 8570 | Rake 0
Board [4d] [Tc] [5c] [6d] [3d]
Seat 1: TagZeroNet folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Sandman4028 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: ThomasSinus (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: cam4711 (big blind) showed [8c] [7c] and won (8570) with a straight, Four to Eight
Seat 5: Snuzy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: PBTHEBEST folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: JTSOONER folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: mudspot showed [As] [Ac] and lost with a pair of Aces
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Re: What did I do wrong?

Postby ChanGs » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:30 am

well, wrong timing?
guess he wouldn't call ya all-in if he had nothing.
bad timing i guess.

Aces are tricky... lose lots or win little.

maybe Aces are over rated?? thats wad i feel, esp in tournament play.
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Re: What did I do wrong?

Postby ohboy » Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:49 pm

nah he did it right

the guy called an all in with a gutshot draw and sucked out
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Re: What did I do wrong?

Postby ChanGs » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:08 pm

yea, he did it right.
just bad timing and the guy had to suck out.

KK vs AJs

oh boy oh boy haha....jk =)
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Re: What did I do wrong?

Postby ohboy » Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:01 am

oh shuddup

you did miss the action that made your suckout look insignificant though=)
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Re: What did I do wrong?

Postby suitedpairs29 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:18 am

well u ran into a guy with a big draw

he had a flush draw and a gutshot straight draw

he had 9 clubs + 3 6s

now when you open shoved the flop, as most players would, they assume you had AK or some other high cards and didnt connect on the flop

jf the player puts you simply on unpaired high cards, he has additional outs in the form of his hole cards

but for arguments sake, lets make his outs only 12.

he is 48% to hit on turn and 24% on river

as you can see, you were merely 50% to win given your opponents hand.

all in all, aces will win against this range 3 out of 4 times. you will win this more than you will lose

better luck next time
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Re: What did I do wrong?

Postby ChanGs » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:36 am

ohboy wrote:oh shuddup

you did miss the action that made your suckout look insignificant though=)



haha.. yea.. i heard about them.
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Re: What did I do wrong?

Postby ohboy » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:46 am

suitedpairs29 wrote:well u ran into a guy with a big draw

he had a flush draw and a gutshot straight draw

he had 9 clubs + 3 6s

now when you open shoved the flop, as most players would, they assume you had AK or some other high cards and didnt connect on the flop

jf the player puts you simply on unpaired high cards, he has additional outs in the form of his hole cards

but for arguments sake, lets make his outs only 12.

he is 48% to hit on turn and 24% on river

as you can see, you were merely 50% to win given your opponents hand.

all in all, aces will win against this range 3 out of 4 times. you will win this more than you will lose

better luck next time



i thought with 12 outs, he had a rough 48% to hit on the turn OR river. Aces have only a 4% advantage here. But its still an advantage that made the shove a good move though.

As for additional outs from dominated hole cards...huh?
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Re: What did I do wrong?

Postby suitedpairs29 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:56 am

when i meant additional outs, if the 78s guy was instead up against a hand like AK or AQ, then he would have 3 7s and 3 8s as more outs.

shove was a good move. calling the shove was fine because most of the time its a coinflip. there are times though that you will run into an AK who is on the same flush draw, then you are fucked
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Re: What did I do wrong?

Postby ohboy » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:41 pm

pretty sure the additional outs you refer to can't be counted

not a big fan of mathematical poker, but when your opponent supposedly has the same chance of drawing out a card to beat your out, it's as good as cancelled out, no?
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Re: What did I do wrong?

Postby suitedpairs29 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:17 pm

the 8 and 7 as outs arent counted out

they can only be effectively counted out once the over cards to 8 or 7 pair on the board, otherwise they are not counterfeited

this is the reason why AK is ahead of 87 preflop, because the 87 needs to make a pair to win. also, if both AK and 87 make pairs, the AK makes a higher pair and thus wins.

for the 8 or 7 to be cancelled out, they high cards have to be paired
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Re: What did I do wrong?

Postby ohboy » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:31 am

*shurg*

i'll get back to you on this one
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