Turning a made hand into a bluff - Spewtard vs DonkeyKong

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Turning a made hand into a bluff - Spewtard vs DonkeyKong

Postby SGluckbox » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:21 pm

Was just fooling around in the FTP 10NL tables when this hand came up. Wanted to ask for everyone's advice on this. On the river I had already pegged villain to an overpair when he bets, and my intention was to get him to fold it. Obviously the results dictate that I shoulda just fold and save my monies. In your opinion am I being spewy here or is he just a standard "I'm not folding overpairs ever" kinda guy at the lower stakes. On the river should I be more willing to shove if he checks or small bets $2 compared to when he bets $3 and its only $4 more for him to call when i shove? Thanks guys.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: $14.43
UTG: $10
CO: $10.15
Hero (BTN): $10
SB: $21.63

Pre-Flop: [9d] [Ad] dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG folds, CO raises to $0.40, Hero calls $0.40, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.95) [4d] [5h] [9s] (2 Players)
CO bets $0.80, Hero calls $0.80

Turn: ($2.55) [3h] (2 Players)
CO bets $1.80, Hero calls $1.80

River: ($6.15) [6d] (2 Players)
CO bets $3, Hero raises to $7 and is All-In, CO calls $4

Results: $20.15 Pot ($1.34 Rake)
CO showed [Qs] [Qc] (a pair of Queens) and LOST (-$10 NET)
Hero showed [9d] [Ad] (a pair of Nines) and LOST (-$10 NET)
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Re: Turning a made hand into a bluff - Spewtard vs DonkeyKong

Postby messageforearth » Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:54 pm

I think at NL10, the villian isn't really thinking much. Fishes like him are unable to fold their overpairs ( QQ ) even when it's clear they are beaten. I suggest you do not pull off such bluffs at lower limits, although this would work at higher limits.
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Re: Turning a made hand into a bluff - Spewtard vs DonkeyKong

Postby vegabong » Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:07 pm

you should have folded on the turn when he bets $1.8. After the turn both are pot committed, stacks are not too deep, your reraise all-in is an easy call.
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Re: Turning a made hand into a bluff - Spewtard vs DonkeyKong

Postby chenghao » Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:03 am

there was no flush draw , only a straight draw on the flop , OESD which he seem unlikely to have , unless he can raise with 23 , 36 or 67 with 67 being the closest connectors likely.

if u fold on the flop, its a bit weak as 9 is probably the best card u want ( an Ace will might be out kicked even ) besides flush.

so the decision would be should i call or should i raise ?
if u wanted to test him if he had face cards or just lower pockets ( which he may fold to if his just making a standard cbet ) , you could reraise him on the flop to make him fold those , if he calls , you could c/f the turn and river or u could have taken it down there.

on the flop , the hands you beat : 2 face cards , 2s , 3s , 6s , 7s . 8s , 67s/o
hands that beat you : 44 , 55 , 99 , TT + , 45
The turn would be a blank , except for pocket 3s or 67s ,

if he was a once and done cbettor , he would have checked his 2 face cards / poc 8s on the turn , , which he didn't.
on the turn , the hands you beat : 2 face cards , 2s , 6s , 7s . 8s ,
hands that beat you : 33 44 , 55 , 99 , TT + 67s/o

on the river , there is really nothing you beat , except pocket 8s and 2 random face cards
on the turn , the hands you beat : 2 face cards , 8s ,
hands that beat you : 22-77s 9s , TT + 67s/o

given the same scenario , i can adopt a few lines
1: c/c all 3 streets , hope TPTK is good enough to take down the showdown.
2: b/f the flop , i could test the strength of him on the flop , folding to a reraise knowing he probably got me beat as my objective is to flop a flush / flush draw and neither Ace nor 9 against him.
3: i would c/c 2 streets , hoping to get either back door flush draw , or trip 9s ,or 9s and Aces up.

i choose the first option the first few encounters , i would be able to see his card and understand his play , given the same situation , i would be able to win/lose less. It would be much easier if you understood his play by seeing his play while others engage him , its cheaper that way.
i prefer option 2 given any reads on him as i would be able to find out more on the flop and find out if i am way ahead or way behind.
Option 3 would give me good payout as no one would expect the backdoor flush draw, trip 9s would win against higher pockets and Aces up would milk those who cbet with cards like AT+ and hit the miracle Ace.
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Re: Turning a made hand into a bluff - Spewtard vs DonkeyKong

Postby ikelos » Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:30 am

Pretty easy call for the villain i think, since you have no fold equity.

think the standard play here would be to flat 2 streets and fold to a river bet.

alternatively, if you want to turn your hand into a bluff, you probably need to raise the turn and barrel the river, since strong hands like made straights, sets and two pairs are never flatting the turn with a flush draw on the board.

the only hands you're representing there with the river raise are pocket 7s and 67, and the villain prob knows that 67 would have raised the turn, while sets are either raising the turn, or not raising the river. in the villain's mind, you're almost never going to have a straight there, since most pocket 7s are folding to his turn bet anyway.
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