About the 'police bust' in yishun

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Re: About the 'police bust' in yishun

Postby toothy07 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:07 pm

This shall be my final reply.

I stated clearly at the beginning that this is my opinion. Of course you have the right to have your own.
So just to clarify a few points. When i say it is not a public den meaning, the host knows exactly who he is expecting for the game that night. For a gambling den in the back alleys, anyone can just walk into it for a quick game. Next, be careful when you make "i heard..." statements when you are not the first party, might land yourself in trouble. For those active in this forum, previous case about mr Vince Lau is a good example. (no point searching, the case has been handled and the thread totally removed.) Also, I have also stated that I am not trying to say we are unwilling to face the music. Like i said, we are all ready to face the consequences.

Lastly, this is really disheartening. I wrote in my last paragraph the key motivation for writing this article. Putting aside rake or no rake, the non poker community sees us as gamblers, which is an inaccurate impression. My highlight is to raise the issue of poker players often being demeaned as any other gamblers. But looking at the situation now that even poker players are disputing among ourselves, how will the others come to accept us as a professional intelligent poker players? I only wish for unity and a sense of belonging among fellow poker players, in hope of achieving the well deserved pride of being a poker player in future in Singapore.

I hope this time I am clear enough. I didn't write this to create an uproar. I was only hoping to gather the unity of the poker community. Cheers.
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Re: About the 'police bust' in yishun

Postby mugiwara84 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:48 pm

Froggy wrote:
chenghao wrote:so far those that have been raided all raked leh , there isn't a non rake game raid , is there?


chenghao! self deal $0.20/$0.40 game needed, long time no play live liao!



kakis self deal minigame!!! i offer to use my place on a weekday afternoon
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Re: About the 'police bust' in yishun

Postby mugiwara84 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:49 pm

aniwayz at the end of it all lets just hope jay doesnt face jail time. deportation wld be enough
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Re: About the 'police bust' in yishun

Postby necrohavoc » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:57 pm

i don't think that the non-poker community seeing poker players as gamblers is inaccurate. We have to look at it from an objective perspective. What accredited body verifies an individual as a poker player of skill? There are no accredited schools/varsities, no professional institutions like lawyers, doctors or accountants have. If I were the general public, how would I even begin to make assumptions on integrity on said poker player(s). And we do see many gamblers play poker, and vice versa.

Philosophically, if an individual wants respect then I think one has to be judged by his/her actions, words and/or achievements in the long run, and if there are enough of such people of integrity, then generalization to the mass can be hopefully be achieved. Rather than focus on "changing the misconception of the public", let's focus on improving ourselves as poker players and achieving great results and prominence in the international scene. Bryan "brasstal" is a good example to follow, if more and more of us start achieving great things, there will be good press...more good press leads to better reputation and better education through articles.

This scenario is not unique by the way...skateboarders were regarded as troublemakers...snooker players regarded as ruffians...tattooed individuals regarded as gangsters... but I see what those who are serious in their trade mostly have, they don't care what others have to say and just do what they do best.
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Re: About the 'police bust' in yishun

Postby Afternoon » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:02 pm

chenghao wrote:so far those that have been raided all raked leh , there isn't a non rake game raid , is there?


Police only act upon complaints ! Why kana complaints ? Host made money, players (lose money) or competitors (other host) Bey Song !

A place where people play on a regular basis (almost daily), with different groups of "friends", collecting small amount ,"rake" to "so call" cover utilities, drinks and makan, maybe dealer allowance and rental charge is as good as operating a poker house business. How can you consider that as a "friendly home" game? It is gambling, for sure, with money.

I play Poker, i never deny poker is a game of gambling, but is a game that i have some say and control to it, not like bacarrat, 100% depends on luck.

The day will come when poker is to be considered a "Sport" will be when one lucky Singaporean win the "WSOP" main event and he donates his bracelet to Singapore Sport Council plus a US$1million cheque to Charity and a firmed hand shake with the Sport Minister, Mr. Teo Ser Luck ..... then maybe Poker players can gain respects from follow Singaporeans.
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Re: About the 'police bust' in yishun

Postby mochathegreat » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:24 pm

Hedge wrote:I do agree that poker is about having fun. I remember a few years back we just had to pay an entrance fee like $20 to cover the dealer and the expenses. That is what i call a real social game. Nowadays most raked game real objective is just to make money. Host typically makes around $1500 per night which means everyone added together needs to lose $1500 each night. That's around $200 per night and $6000 per month per person. Do u think a typical young male can afford that? The economics just isn't sound and problems is bound to arise.
And in this case it happens. Someone tip off the police. I do know 2 guys from the grp that got busted last night on a personal level.


Mr Hedge, as u had mentioned here.. the entrance fee which u paid for in ur donkey years ago visit to a poker game was to cover the dealer and expenses( food and drinks i guess). Similarly, this entrance fee is not the $20 anymore, even noodles which cost 30 cents now cost $2.5 a bowl.
Put it in simple terms to ya, if u attended a chalet with a group of friends, u are sharing the total costs incurred for the rental, food/drinks etc and u get to use the place and be happy, make merry for the days u rented for. Right now, a group of friends( meaning they know each other quite well, not only meet for poker but for other social activities as well) rented a place (condo - more comfy and private), installed Cable TV, internet facility and where everyone gathered to have fun. However, the cost for a chalet and the cost for a condo is different.. One will need to take into account the effort and time spent by the owners to take care of the place, therefore rake comes into effect.. Just like how water money is collected for mahjong games for those who doesnt know this..
Secondly, how does economics come into a discussion for poker at this moment.. Mr hedge, do u mean that when things does not balance out, meaning when there are both winners and losers, the losers will then cause trouble? Or what sort of problems will arise..
Lastly, the main objective of a raked game to ya might be to make money.. But to the rest, we might have the thinking that the rake is to cover all the miscellaneous expenses and we as young adults are not so stingy to avoid paying for it. Also, please dont quote examples of existing non rake games. Cos such games are either hosted in places where there are no proper poker tables, maybe even using BEE cards with self dealing Or u are talking about filthy rich people having their private games at their posh apartment where the thought of rental, food/drinks expenses does not cross their mind at all.. With this, i am talking about normal average salaried guy/gal..
And.. the game at kathib is definitely not available to any Tom Dick or Hedge public people.. oops, sorry.. Maybe u are the Internal affairs 'police'? haha, j/k
Peace, Peace
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Re: About the 'police bust' in yishun

Postby Hedge » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:40 pm

u think a game where the host take 1500 per night is sustainable? If the game is as gd as u said it is, y is there someone tipping off the police lol.
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Re: About the 'police bust' in yishun

Postby mochathegreat » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:50 pm

Hedge wrote:u think a game where the host take 1500 per night is sustainable? If the game is as gd as u said it is, y is there someone tipping off the police lol.


Beating the rake and whether it is sustainable or not depends on the players involved.. As i can see, the core group of players have been playing together for quite some time.. Some win and some lose and lives are not affected.. Perhaps Mr hedge, u are working on a tight bankroll of 1 or 2 buy ins and therefore u cant afford any rake or bad beats etc therefore this explains all the negative thoughts presented by u against the rake earned by the host to cover the expenses? LOLZ

As for the someone who tipped off the police, it is all rumours and hearsay.. Police wont divulge out such information and it is all speculation at the moment. Unless u can 100% say that the tip off is true cos that person is YOU? :)
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Re: About the 'police bust' in yishun

Postby Hedge » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:57 pm

it's all over the news lol
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Re: About the 'police bust' in yishun

Postby support » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:12 am

Note:
Posts will have 360mins countdown for editing or deletion after which posters CANNOT EDIT THEIR POSTS anymore.
This has been effect for the last 2 days (before this raid thingy comes up)
This has been also been reflected in the new terms. ucp.php?mode=terms

So please THINK before u post something u regret 6hrs later. ;)
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Re: About the 'police bust' in yishun

Postby Vincc » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:33 am

Ya. True. mochathegreat make a great point there. Even kopi and redbull in 7-11 cost ard 2 bucks now. Police wear long pants. Char kuey teow not 50cents anymore. It is definitely fair to give dealer and host some money back to cover back their costs. It is because we regard poker as some kind of hobby and interest den we would put more effort and expect a higher expection in the game. For example. rich plp like to play golf, they also would go sign country club membership and play in golf field and not anyhow find a football field at yr hs downstair to play. Same logic here, if u feel that the 20 dollar entrance fee environment is good enough for u den so be it, tat your own expectation of the game. Furthermore, it's an invitation only game for close friends not as if any ah beng, uncle, ah soh knock door will be allowed in to place a bet. and i dun see any fault to keep mj tables and other toys in the house. If anybody would think that all host earn 1500-2k a nite, i can garantee u this yishun host is barely earning anything.

News and article are meant to be read. But truth and facts are up to one to believe. There's a certain depth to everything and not a simple paragraph can put that across.

- Just mine 10 cents worth of view + a bit of fairness.
Last edited by Vincc on Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: About the 'police bust' in yishun

Postby iZech » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:37 am

rake too high ppl not happy.

rake too low host cant cover back then wats the point of hosting?

this has always been a problem for me too...when ever i go "out" (unknown ppl house) for game i will think abt rake as some place really rake like siao

EG: i was playing 1/2 game i all in with 18.5bucks 3 caller with bind $ and 1X6bucks(a guy raise 6 two sit before me with 1 caller then my turn to act which i all in) the pot will have around 62-64? however i won the pot and got back 55bucks.

so that was like 10-12% rake man which explain why ppl can earn up to 1.5k a night , they anyhow rake.(i dun noe abt other place but for this seem to me)

i nv went back to the place anymore and find other place for game.

i was always ok with the idea of rake. its like what some other kaki said for the service drinks dealer etc. but not which the above place where they anyhow rake. their purpose is to host and earn $

so i start to try self deal place , starting of the game play its ok but after sometime later i prefer to have a dealer!
with a dealer to deal cards have more "feel" and play a more standard game.

since this has been a problem to many of us y dun we just set and agree to a amount for host to collect from every player be it 20/30bucks from each player , for mayb a nice 8h of game with dealer , drinks and mayb aircon?

PS:i mean a fix amount for us poker kaki to follow which means we find game or host game in poker kaki it will be that $-- be collected from player to host. what u guys think?
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Re: About the 'police bust' in yishun

Postby JLiuuu » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:40 am

There seems to be 2 different issues here - rake games and poker being a game of skill. Whether having rake and having how much rake is appropriate, this is pretty much disputable. Too little or none, the host makes a loss, and too much, the host is considered over-charging. However, I believe that OP's main concern is with the latter issue.

Unfortunately, poker is viewed as a social stigma, especially so in a traditional Asian country such as Singapore. Cultural norms here view it as pure gambling and the media further portrays it in a negative limelight. This is mainly due to the numerous stories of people losing fortunes in the casino.

How about other similar activities? For example, a forex trader. Risk and returns are carefully weighted before making trades that would be profitable in the long run. This is very similar concept for any good poker player. Comparing a forex trader and a poker player, one is definitely more socially accepted than the other.

In short, my point is that society's mindset is hard to change and such activities are commonly frowned upon.
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Re: About the 'police bust' in yishun

Postby WSOPTH » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:05 am

Afternoon wrote:If the police want to raid you, they hack care whether you raked or no rake.

To them gambling is gambling, how the host collect money or so call rake no rake, the host can jolly well explain to the judge and do you think the judge play Texas poker and do understand your explaination?

judges in that poker movie plays poker and many of them....:D
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