Are programmes like Hold'em Manger, Poker Tracker legal?

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Are programmes like Hold'em Manger, Poker Tracker legal?

Postby D4rkFusion » Sat May 29, 2010 11:02 pm

Hi everyone. Just want to ask if programmes like Hold'em Manager, Poker tracker that is able to reveal opponents hand history (% they raise, C bet, 3bet etc) bought from sites like PTR legal on FTP PS etc? i know for sure that sharing hand history is illegal from the Brian Townsend and isildur1 incident, so how are programmes that can show opponents hand history legal? im sure some kakis are using the programmes haha please share your thoughts :)

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Re: Are programmes like Hold'em Manger, Poker Tracker legal?

Postby JLiuuu » Sat May 29, 2010 11:52 pm

Yes, these are perfectly legal.

Quoted from pokerstars website:
# In general, what kind of tools and services are acceptable?
# The following types of tools and services are generally acceptable:

1. Tools, services or charts that simply tell you odds, starting hand recommendations, etc.
2. Tools and services that profile your opponents, but make use of only information which you have accumulated through your own play.
3. Macros and Hotkey programs that don't have any bearing on gameplay logic. For example, you can use AutoHotKey, MacroExpress or AutoIt3 to make it such that you 'bet the pot' when you press the 'P' key, but you cannot use these or other utilities to create an autofolder that folds poor starting hands, or that automates advice or actions from any other program.
4. Tools and services that help you analyse your game but do not or cannot be setup to offer direct, real-time advice on the appropriate action to take.



Here's a link that shows more info: http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/prohibited/
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Re: Are programmes like Hold'em Manger, Poker Tracker legal?

Postby D4rkFusion » Sat May 29, 2010 11:58 pm

how about if they are used to show opponent's hand history? is this legal?

http://www.pokertableratings.com/hand-histories
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Re: Are programmes like Hold'em Manger, Poker Tracker legal?

Postby JLiuuu » Sun May 30, 2010 12:30 am

Hmm as for PTR, I believe it is not illegal at the moment as the poker sites can't really enforce the banning of sales of observed hand histories, but perhaps they are trying to stop it in the future.
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Re: Are programmes like Hold'em Manger, Poker Tracker legal?

Postby chenghao » Sun May 30, 2010 12:47 am

D4rkFusion wrote:Hi everyone. Just want to ask if programmes like Hold'em Manager, Poker tracker that is able to reveal opponents hand history (% they raise, C bet, 3bet etc) bought from sites like PTR legal on FTP PS etc? i know for sure that sharing hand history is illegal from the Brian Townsend and isildur1 incident, so how are programmes that can show opponents hand history legal? im sure some kakis are using the programmes haha please share your thoughts :)

[Ts] [Js] [Qs] [Ks] [As]

http://www.pokertableratings.com/faqs#hh


Will poker sites confiscate my funds if I use PokerTableRatings.com?
There have not been any reports of any player having their funds confiscated from any poker site for using PokerTableRatings.com.

thats what they say.

on poker stars though

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/prohibited/

The following are examples of tools and services which are prohibited at all times:

1. Advanced Poker Calculator
2. CardAnalyzer
3. FullAutoHoldem
4. Gambot
5. Hand HQ
6. HH Repository
7. HHCollector
8. HHdealer
9. hhSmithey
10. Hold’em Watcher
11. Holdem Hawk
12. Holdem Inspector a.k.a. Online Holdem Inspector
13. Holdem Pirate
14. Holdem Spy
15. ICM-Bot
16. iHH Harvester
17. Mandraker
18. MyPokerIntel
19. NoLimitFoldem
20. Online Omaha High Inspector
21. Online Poker Bot
22. Online Tournament Inspector
23. Open Holdem Bot
24. OPI Wizard
25. Paragon Poker Pal
26. Poker Android
27. Poker Bloodhound
28. Poker Bot+
29. Poker Crusher
30. Poker Edge
31. Poker Inspector a.k.a. Online Poker Inspector
32. Poker Mate
33. Poker Prophecy
34. Poker Sherlock
35. Poker Sidekick
36. Poker Table Manager
# Poker Usher
# POKERobot
# Preflop Autofolder
# Preflop Poker Bot
# Seeker
# Sense Mind
# SharkMate
# Sit And Go Shark
# Sit n' Go Brain
# Sixth Sense
# SmartCollector a.k.a. Mixed Harvesters
# SpadeEye
# Stars Hand History (SHH)
# StarSpy
# StatsForPoker
# Stud Inspector v1
53 Table Ratings aka Poker Table Ratings
# Texas Auto Fold
# WinHoldem


http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/prohibited_programs.php

NOT Permitted During Play

The following classes of programs are not permitted while playing on Full Tilt Poker:

1. Programs that provide specific recommendations or assistance for betting decisions during live play:

Programs that suggest betting actions (i.e. fold, call or raise) in current situations and software that provides assistance in making this type of decision cannot be used during play. For example, poker calculators that automatically extract the current situation from a live game and compute hand probabilities and odds are not permitted.

Players must make all betting decisions on their own and without assistance of any type.

Specific examples include:

* Online Holdem Inspector
* Poker Calculator Pro
* SNG Endgame Tools (SNGEGT)
* Short Stacking Strategy (SSS) Calculator
* SAGE Calculator
* Poker Hound
* any custom-built program in this category

2. Programs or services that provide additional information on opponents that a player would not normally be privy to:

Certain programs, websites, and subscription services provide extra information on opponents which may not be used during play. For example, the use of shared databases of tournament histories, results, and statistics are not permitted. Specific examples include:

* SharkScope
* Top Shark
* Smart Buddy
* Poker Table Ratings

3. Any other type of program/software that confers an unfair advantage for the user:

If, in the judgment of Full Tilt Poker, a program provides a significant advantage for the user that could not be attained through fair play, then that program is not permitted.
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Re: Are programmes like Hold'em Manger, Poker Tracker legal?

Postby JLiuuu » Sun May 30, 2010 1:46 am

Found this on another forum posted on 27/5/10 regarding PS's email response on PTR:

Hello XXXX,

Than you for your email.

Unfortunately, I can not give you the answer you want to hear, which is "we
guarantee there is zero datamining on PokerStars". That is a guarantee we
cannot make today, and that we will not be able to make in the future.
*Anyone* who gives you that guarantee is simply misleading you.

The fundamental problem is that the games can be observed. Anybody can load
up a PokerStars client and observe a game in progress, and see the game play
as it goes. They can also view the hand history immediately after the hand,
in the "Instant Hand History" window.

Allowing observers to view the games prior to they play is a fundamental
feature of the software that cannot be removed. Players like being able to
tell their friends "hey, come sweat me on table so-and-so, I'm winning big!".

Once the data appears on a remote player's screen, however, it's completely
out of our control. If it's being displayed on a remote screen, it *can* be
gathered by a determined collector, no matter what restrictions we put in
place... and we do have many such restrictions in place. This is the same
challenge that Hollywood studios are facing: any data sent to a PC can be
recorded, and Hollywood is collectively spending billions of dollars and
trying to develop new protected hardware paths to stop people pirating video
and audio.

It is our goal to minimise datamining via software limitations, without
overly restricting real players who need to legitimately observe a table at
which they are not playing. Since we're unwilling to completely remove
such features (which would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater), we
will always be engaged in a game of cat and mouse with those people that
seek to break our rules.

We'll introduce a new block, and they'll circumvent it somehow, given enough
time and resources.

There is simply no way we can keep them all out. We can only raise the
barrier so high that it becomes not feasible to continue to do so, which is
a barrier we have not yet reached and may never reach. Someone will always
find value in finding a way around our efforts.

The best we can do is to continue to make their efforts less than complete,
and to continue to shut down the accounts and access points of those that
would gather hand histories. This is very much an ongoing process, and not
at all an easy fix, as the end result cannot be that real players are
blocked from observing the tables.

It is a fundamental paradox.

Datamining remains against the rules, and we continue to pursue all options,
including potentially legal options against for profit datamining companies.
Individual dataminers who are caught and ignore warnings are at risk of the
loss of playing privileges on PokerStars.

I regret that I can't be the bearer of better news, but I wish you well in
the future.

Regards,

PokerStars Support Team
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Re: Are programmes like Hold'em Manger, Poker Tracker legal?

Postby guanie » Sun May 30, 2010 5:41 am

in any case, i think PS can block access to PTR and sharkscope during play, but when the PS client isnt running i dont think there is much they can do abt it.

while buying HHs is hard to police, sorta like downloading porn in singapore, it still contravenes the TOS of PS and FTP, which gives them the right to terminate your acct if u are ever caught. so like in the army, its nv illegal if u dont get caught.

PT3 and HEM on the other hand are perfectly legit.
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Re: Are programmes like Hold'em Manger, Poker Tracker legal?

Postby HoldeminPoker » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:42 am

I don't think its illegal.It can increase the [b]poker[/b] player capability and their winning chance also.
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