How badly did I play my Ace Nine offsuit?

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How badly did I play my Ace Nine offsuit?

Postby AceKing » Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:08 pm

Please be honest with me. This is the second time I lost with this hand with an identical flop.


PokerStars Game #45701343529: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02 USD) - 2010/06/19 5:55:36 UTC [2010/06/19 1:55:36 ET]
Table 'Alcyone' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Hero ($2.84 in chips)
Seat 2: Villain ($4.12 in chips)
Seat 3: icenuck ($3.37 in chips)
Seat 4: kolmaleks ($0.80 in chips)
Seat 5: acessup33 ($1.59 in chips)
Seat 6: desnick24 ($5 in chips)
Seat 7: Amiqus999 ($1.16 in chips)
Seat 8: BLKJKJIM ($0.73 in chips)
Seat 9: pash4 ($4.44 in chips)
acessup33: posts small blind $0.01
desnick24: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [9h Ac]
Amiqus999: folds
BLKJKJIM: folds
pash4: folds
Hero: calls $0.02
Villain: calls $0.02
icenuck: folds
kolmaleks: folds
acessup33: calls $0.01
desnick24: checks
*** FLOP *** [As Qc 9d]
acessup33: checks
desnick24: checks
Hero: bets $0.02
Villain: raises $0.10 to $0.12
acessup33: folds
desnick24: folds
Hero: raises $0.10 to $0.22
Villain: raises $0.10 to $0.32
Hero: calls $0.10
*** TURN *** [As Qc 9d] [4s]
Hero: checks
Villain: bets $0.12
Hero: calls $0.12
*** RIVER *** [As Qc 9d 4s] [3d]
Hero: checks
Villain: bets $1.60
Hero: raises $0.78 to $2.38 and is all-in
Villain: calls $0.78
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Hero: shows [9h Ac] (two pair, Aces and Nines)
Villain: shows [Ah Qd] (two pair, Aces and Queens)
Villain collected $5.44 from pot
AceKing
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Re: How badly did I play my Ace Nine offsuit?

Postby AceKing » Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:42 pm

Also, here's another similar situation, but I ended up winning. So I'm kinda confused on what I should do in situations where I don't have the nuts.

PokerStars Game #45701214688: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02 USD) - 2010/06/19 5:48:46 UTC [2010/06/19 1:48:46 ET]
Table 'Alcyone' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Hero ($2.09 in chips)
Seat 2: spfj88 ($3.89 in chips)
Seat 3: icenuck ($3.40 in chips)
Seat 4: Villain ($0.91 in chips)
Seat 6: benadam999 ($4.13 in chips)
Seat 7: Amiqus999 ($1.06 in chips)
Seat 8: BLKJKJIM ($0.76 in chips)
Seat 9: pash4 ($4.70 in chips)
Villain: posts small blind $0.01
benadam999: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [9c Tc]
Amiqus999: folds
BLKJKJIM: calls $0.02
pash4: folds
Hero: calls $0.02
spfj88: folds
icenuck: folds
Villain: calls $0.01
benadam999: checks
*** FLOP *** [Jc Kc 6h]
Villain: bets $0.06
benadam999: folds
BLKJKJIM: folds
Hero: calls $0.06
*** TURN *** [Jc Kc 6h] [7c]
Villain: bets $0.08
Hero: raises $0.08 to $0.16
Villain: raises $0.26 to $0.42
Hero: calls $0.26
*** RIVER *** [Jc Kc 6h 7c] [Qd]
Villain: bets $0.41 and is all-in
Hero: calls $0.41
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Villain: shows [4c 2c] (a flush, King high)
Hero: shows [9c Tc] (a flush, King high - Ten higher)
Hero collected $1.77 from pot




Any advice is greatly appreciated. =)
AceKing
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Re: How badly did I play my Ace Nine offsuit?

Postby guanie » Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:00 pm

1st hand:
-dont limp preflop
-dont 3bet minraise flop
-dont c/rai to river overbet

2nd hand:
-dont limp preflop
-u are always stacking off with any flush against someone less than 50bb

overall, dont play 2nl esp without rakeback. u will pay more in rake than u can possibly win or lose.
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Re: How badly did I play my Ace Nine offsuit?

Postby chenghao » Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:19 am

Both hands : play with a purpose , the reason people fold A9 is that the only hands you can hit are trip 9s , A9X ( lower then 9) Offsuit is even worse because you can't even hit a flush.

However a hand like AT suited is way stronger then A9 off. It has more ways to win. With that you can hit Trip Ts , ATX , Straight with KQJ , nut flush (probably might take the stack of a lower flush like K high flush)

The problem with AT and A9 when u hit the A is that You might be out kicked by AJ AQ AK.
T9 is an ok hand , but u really want to hit the 678 rather then the JQK as its the fool's end of the straight , u are crushed by AT ,

Hands like AJ , AQ are strong if you are the first raiser / In position , but doesn't play well multiway or stand 4bets

http://www.pokerlistings.com/strategy/a ... -best-hand

Very good article to read up on , Even AQ is the worst best hand. , Win small pots , lose big pots ( for cash games)

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showfla ... &fpart=all

Quite tough article on 3bets when u have AK if this is the first time u hear about things like EV ( expected Value)

So when someone reraise you , If they have JJ , TT , you are even money , coin flip.
If they have AA , KK , QQ , you are behind by a lot.
If they have AK , you are also dominated.
You only dominate hands like QJ , AJ , AT , KQ which if you know are in a guy's 3bet range , you probably can 4bet shove profitably but lets not go there first.

What are the chances when he 3bets you ?

lets say his range is picture cards.
TT + AQo+ , AK , KQs
Against someone with this range

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

66,779,856 games 0.109 secs 612,659,229 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 35.565% 31.40% 04.16% 20970441 2779996.50 { AsQs }
Hand 1: 64.435% 60.27% 04.16% 40249422 2779996.50 { TT+, AQs+, AKo }


---

When in any situation , think of what a person will play given his style , his stack , his position , his mood. Put him through an estimated range and see what you win and what u beat.

Example :

U have AK
This guy bets 3 X BB pre flop , you 12x BB reraise him and he flats your 3bet.

Flop : AKQ : you flop top 2
He checks , you led out with half the pot , ( 12 BB) , he raises you to 42 BB , you shove and he snaps with flopped straight.
turn and river blanks and he takes out the pot.

If lets say you are quite familiar with his range. He will preflop raise with broadway ( picture cards) and pocket pair , flat your 3bet with broad way with 22 - JJ ,
4bet shove you with QQ+ , you can safely eliminate QQ+

Flop he check/raises you on AKQ flop ,
If he holds 22 - JJ , he probably would check /fold that flop or if his feeling lucky check/call the flop and hope his set peels.
Lets say he has broadway.

The fact that AK is on your hand , AKQ is out there
Leaves : 2 A , 2 K , 3 Qs , 4 Js , 4 Ts out there.
Combination that you beat: JJ , TT , KQ , AQ
Combination that got you beat : AA , KK , QQ , JT.

there are 6 combination of JJ
[Jd] [Jc]
[Jd] [Jh]
[Jd] [Js]
[Jc] [Jh]
[Jc] [Js]
[Jh] [Js] ,

Similarly , there are 6 Ts , 6Js , 6 (2x3) KQ , 6 AQ = 24
There is one combination of AA , KK , 3 combination of QQ , and 16 combination of JT = 21

But would TT , JJ c/r you on such a flop ? Would AA or KK flat a 3 bet ? ,
so such a c/r probably puts him on KQ AQ which u beat (12)
or a QQ , JT which you don't ( 19)

Of course in the AKQ scenario the way it turns out , its a very tough fold and most players would shove ( to protect your hand if there is a flush draw or get value from A2 - AT , deter lower pockets from hitting their set , and deter the occasional gut shotters , against a straight , still has 4 outs for full house redraw)

A9offsuit is a light 3bet ( betting to make people fold rather then for value) hand that you bet in position in order to take down the pot without seeing a flop. thats probably the best reason to play the hand , so that when you have AA and do the same thing , people will call you more often if you raise more often
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