losing because of bad texture?

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losing because of bad texture?

Postby keldraco » Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:32 pm

Full Tilt Poker Game #21777444986: Table Zalataia - $0.01/$0.02 - Pot Limit Hold'em - 13:16:05 ET - 2010/06/21

villain 2 in 2nd position limp in
everyone fold to me on the buttom [As] [Ks]. i raise to 0.08
villain 1(i put him on conservative player) call in small blind. villain 2 call. (Pot: 0.26)

flop [8h] [3d] [2h]

good flop, they check, i cbet to win the hand. but no...

villain 1 check, villain 2 bet 0.04

very small bet, i put him on 8 pair or smaller hand pair or flush draw. i call. villain 1 call.
(pot: 0.38)

turn: [6c]

everyone check.

river: [6d]

villain 1 bet 0.06! villain 2 call. i fold.

showdown: villain 1 [Ah] [Tc] , villain 2 [Jc] [9h]
villain 1 win with weaker A high...

1) villain 1 should be conservative. i didn't put him on AXo when he call my raise. he probably think i'm stealing from the button.

2)is villain 2 bet on the flop due to bad flop texture? if it is, then it a very good play? should i make a raise? when i call his bet, i know i'm going to loss this hand already. should i just fold?

3)both villain check on the turn. should i make a play here? i have already given up my hand on the flop unless i hit something

villain 1 bet river knowing he probably has the best hand. i fold my real best hand, feeling like a loser.
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Re: losing because of bad texture?

Postby chenghao » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:14 pm

Use a hand history convertor or just post the HH here
As it tells a lot of information like how deep your stacks are etc.
Also hand histories tend to remove the outcome ( we should not be result orientated )
(you have to manually edit the hands though as their symbols is slightly different)

This is a case of going into a hand with no plans

*from poker strategy under flop strategy(SnG but i think it applies here too)*
Read below for what i mean"

your preflop action is ok , 2 callers.
with AKs , you are hoping to flop the A , K , flush , or straight

Flop comes , [8h] [3d] [2h]
Villian 1 checks , villian 2 donks a small amount

@ this point you should think , what is the purpose of this small bet ?
@ micros , its likely that this small bet is like a check /blocker bet and you could just cbet as you were the preflop raiser. continuing with the aggressive plan.

If you put him on the 8 , and you call , are you hoping to peel an A or K to take down the pot ? what happens if you don't hit it ? he has the initiative and will take down the pot !
If you put him on a flush draw , you want to price him out of a draw ! like pot is 0.26 , bet 2/3 the pot to price him out of draws.

As it plays out , everyone is in to the turn ,
[6c] hits. everyone checks to you.

6 would only hit the person with OESD (holding 45) , otherwise , it would likely be a blank ( the 8 pair is still in front , the flush draw still missed)

Why did vilian 2 bet the flop and checked the turn ??
You need to bet for more information!

lets say you bet here and get check/raised , you are probably looking @ a straight , something stronger then 8 pair.
if u get called , you might be against one of the pairs on the board.
If all folds , then you took down the pot ( the advantage of being aggressive)

If u get called and river is not a heart , you can check down the river cos you are in position.
AK on this sort of board would have showdown value against a heart draw and might be the best hand.

Working out a Plan

After you've evaluated your hand strength, and considered where you might stand with your hand – based on the board as well as your opponent – it is now of the highest importance to work out a plan.

This plan should include deliberations of what you want to achieve in this pot, and most of all, how you want to achieve this.

Certainly, this plan has to take into account that two more streets will follow. The decisions you make on the flop definitely have their impact on the play on the turn and river.

How to implement a plan is one side of the coin. However, what plan could you have? What are the approaches behind this plan?

To get to the bottom of this topic, we will at first explain 8 terms. Some of them overlap with each other and are relatively similar.

We will differ between two kinds of "plans":

* The aggressive plan
* The passive plan


First of all, take a look at the 4 most important terms for aggressive play:

* Value
* Protection
* Bluff
* Semi-bluff

In order to get a better picture of what is meant with these terms check out the No-Limit articles on betting types where the terms a defined in more detail.

Value and protection go hand in hand - in this case you consider yourself to be ahead and want to extract value. At the same time, you don't want to give away free cards, or let your opponent draw cheaply.

With bluffs and semi-bluffs, you want to profit from your fold equity, in the specific case of a semi-bluff you even have further outs to improve to a strong hand.

The logical consequence is clear: You bet! And even more importantly, you also know why.

What makes this so important?

Unfortunately, your opponents don't always do what you expect from them. If you bet your strong hands, you want to be paid off. When you bet your weak hands and because you are looking to get some fold equity, you want your opponent to find a fold.

The second flop play article "On the flop - when to play Aggressively" will give you several examples of how to play when you are confronted with calls or even raises.

To start off, some keywords here as well:

* Way ahead / way behind
* Pot control
* Bluff induce
* Passive draw play

Pot control is the basic idea of keeping the pot small and controlling it. This works best for you in position.

Bluff induce describes a passive play you make which has the intention of generating a bluff bet on one of the following streets. Here you have to of course keep in mind that you should not be playing like this on dangerous or drawy boards, as you don't want to give out free cards. You also need to be holding a reasonable hand with showdown value, and assume that your opponent is holding a weaker hand than yours.

'Way ahead / way behind' describes a situation in which you are either far ahead, or far behind. You don't have to be afraid of obvious draws, since your opponent either has very few outs against you, or you are nearly drawing dead to your opponent. So the aggressive logic of protection loses importance, and you have the ability to give out free cards. As you might have noticed by now, the play 'way ahead / way behind' is a combination of both pot control as well as bluff induce.

With passive check/calling, you keep the pot small and will receive another bluff bet from weaker hands. This way, you win the most from weaker hands, and lose the least against stronger hands.

Meanwhile, the passive draw play should be self-evident. While you play your draw aggressively with a semi-bluff, you play it passively in this case and hope for a hit on the following street.
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Re: losing because of bad texture?

Postby chenghao » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:50 pm

* Value
You PFR with [Qd] [Qh]
2 callers , flop [4d] [4h] [Js]
rarely they have the 4 , most of the time they have the J and you are getting value from their J if they can't let it go. no flush or straight draws either.

* Protection
You PFR with [As] [Kh]
2 callers , flop [Ks] [7h] [6h]
you want to get paid off by pairs with smaller kickers
you don't want the flush or straight to draw
Of course there is the occasional 2 pair/ set
Re-evaluate previous plays with the players in the hand now before you cbet and have a plan of what they do when they reraise/ call .
The only hands you won't to worry about is 66 and 77 here.

* Bluff
A cbet can be a good way to take down the pot when you miss the flop, provided you were the pre-flop aggressor.
PFR with [2d] [2h]
2 callers
Flop : [Qs] [Tc] [6d]
here is a bad spot to bluff as its easier to bluff 1 person all the time , bluff everyone some of the time , but not everyone all the time.
The more people in the pot , the tougher it is to bluff.
When you do cbet too often , others might notice and call you down light
But if you don't cbet , you can only win by showdown and a 63 off suit will win you.

* Semi-bluff
The idea behind the semi-bluff is closely related to that of the pure bluff. The difference: Even though you would prefer to see your opponent to fold (since you currently have no showdown value), you can still improve your hand on the later streets if you do get called.
You PFR with [4s] [5s]
one callers , flop comes [7s] [Js] [6h]
You have flush and straight draw! by betting here , you are semibluffing.

* Way ahead / way behind + * Pot control
You call a PFR-er with [Kd] [Qs] in position
Flop comes [Qh] [6d] [3c]
he cbets and you call
In this case , you are way ahead or way behind

way behind of : QQ +, AQ , 66 ,33
way ahead of : QX , 77+ , 44 55

You can play a relatively strong hand passively on a dry board. Raising will usually only lead to your isolating yourself in a pot against a better hand. Raise/call would be overplaying the hand, and raise/fold would ultimately be a bluff, which isn't exactly your goal when holding top pair

* Bluff induce
UTG PFR , you 3bet with [Ks] [Kh] , he flats.
Flop : [Ad] [7d] [4h]
He checks , you check.
You check behind and hope that your opponent will bet on the turn with a weaker hand every once in a while.

* Passive draw play
UTG , MP , CO limps , so you limp with [6s] [5s] on btn , SB fold , BB checks
Flop : [2s] [8s] [Jc]
BB checks , UTG bets , MP folds , CO calls , you call.
You obviously want to stay in the pot, since you're getting excellent odds. You can play draws aggressively heads up, but that is a poor idea in an unraised multi-way pot. You will rarely generate enough fold equity to push your opponents out of the hand. You are in position and can sit back and see how your opponents act ahead of you. 9 outs are good, but they aren't great.

On turn and river :
If someone bets in front of you, you know how to use odds and outs to make the right decision based on the size of the bet. Implied odds may come into play, as well, especially on the turn. Raise if you complete your flush. You have the advantage of position and should be able to maximize your value.

Play draws passively when you can't generate enough fold equity with a bet (which is almost always the case in multi-way pots). Make calls based on odds and outs. Implied odds may come into play, but only if your opponents have enough left in their stacks to pay off a big bet on a later street
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