Grinding tips?

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Grinding tips?

Postby cse2k » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:26 pm

I've decided to start off to play online poker seriously, which I would really like to win and make it steady up to a nice looking bankroll. I decided to put in 50$ and start grinding weekly, (since I'm still studying and study is still my very first concern). But I do not really understand the meaning and functions of grinding cash games. I know that you would be playing multitable cash game and playing with a very systematic style. But is there any tips from pro grinder out there to teach abit how grinding supposingly to be alike and what to be cautious of. thank you~
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Re: Grinding tips?

Postby axel » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:28 pm

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Re: Grinding tips?

Postby Ezagot » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:52 pm

What stakes are you playing? To me good BR management is the most essential and dont be tempted to upstakes so easily.
At micro-stakes all it takes is good solid abc poker and not to tilt when donks bad beat you.
Good Luck!
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Re: Grinding tips?

Postby axel » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:58 pm

BRM is definitely required, if you are still learning then don't try to play too many tables, especially if you're playing 6max. Play fewer tables to improve your poker skills and you'll be able to move up faster. For self-study, read the hand discussion section at forums such as 2+2 and watch poker coaching videos.
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Re: Grinding tips?

Postby Afternoon » Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:27 pm

Normally fresh grinders would need to pay some tuition fees, that is fact...... And from there then you start to learn. UB
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Re: Grinding tips?

Postby cse2k » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:31 pm

I've started and due to my tilting I've starteed to learn... currently my bankroll dropped 6 dollar which I deposited 50$. Not really happy but try to play my best!! won a sng at first yesterday. and currently playing 2 tables at same time.
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Re: Grinding tips?

Postby chenghao » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:26 pm

You can try this strategy for SnG From poker strategy ! ( shameless spamming : http://www.XXXXXX.com/uEX4PM )

The early phase (You have more than 24 big blinds)

While the blinds are still small, you are in phase 1 of your strategy: You will not take unnecessary risk, but rather wait patiently for good cards. Patience is the most important virtue here. When in doubt fold cos the idea is stack preservation.

The middle phase (You have between 14 and 24 big blinds)

When the blinds go up and make up a bigger fraction of your chip stack, your strategy enters phase 2. You become more aggressive and incorporate special moves into your strategy. Stack accumulation

The late phase (You have less than 14 big blinds)

If the blinds get so high they really start hurting your chip stack, you enter the most important and main phase of the tournament, the push-or-fold phase. You will either go all-in or fold before the flop here.

Hands Raises in front of you Action :
AA, KK Exactly one Raise
AA, KK More than one All-In

None Raise
QQ Exactly one Raise
More than one Fold

None Raise
AK Exactly one Call
More than one Fold

JJ, TT None EP : Call MP onwards: Raise
One or more : Fold

99 to 22 None Call
One or more Fold

AQ, AJ, KQ None EP: Fold MP onwards :Raise
One or more Fold

Yes Some hands look nice to play (AQ , JJ etc ) but for this strategy fold them when needed to. They get into tough spots sometimes , like JJ with AK or Q overs on the board , AQ that misses.

Special rules
If there is a raise behind you, you only continue playing with AA, KK, QQ and AK and go All-In immediately. You fold all other cards.
If an opponent raises more than 6 big blinds, you only continue playing with AA, KK, QQ and AK and go All-In immediately. You fold all other cards.

How large are your raises?

With some hands, you raise before the flop. Whenever you do this, you should follow some rules for the size of your raises.

* Your basic raise is 4 big blinds. You will always raise to this size if no one entered the hand before you.
* For every player that called the blind before you, you add another big blind on top.
* If there has been a raise in front of you, you raise to triple the amount of that raise.
* If there were several raises in front of you, you raise to triple the amount of the last raise.
* For every player that called the last raise in front of you, you add another amount equal to the size of this raise to your own raise.
* If you have to put more than half of your chips at stake for a raise, you go all-in right away.

These rules have proven their value in practice, as a raise should never be so small as to give your opponents a good price for a call. It shouldn't be too big, either, though, as to avoid only attracting opponents that have a better hand than yours.

* Nobody raised yet: 4 big blinds + 1 big blind per player that called
* Someone raised: 3 times the raise + 1 times the raise per player that called
* If your raise would cost you more than half of your chips: go all-in right away.

There isn't as much calculating as there seems to be at first glance. These rules will quickly come naturally to you.

so the bets @ blinds level 10/20 = 80 if your first in , 100 if one called.
@ 15/30 = 120 if your first in , 150 if one limper etc

if you reraise someone's bet like someone bets 80 first in a limper calls , you reraise, it should be 240 + 80
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Re: Grinding tips?

Postby chenghao » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:32 pm

Middle phase : (13 - 24 BB including those in the pot already and those behind you )

AA, KK None Raise
One or more All-In


AK, QQ, JJ None Raise
Exactly one All-In
More than one Fold


AQ, TT None EP : Fold MP+ Raise
One or more Fold

Special rule
In case of a raise behind you, you only continue playing with AA, KK, QQ and AK and go All-In right away. You fold all other hands.

As you can see, we got rid of the small pairs. The reason is that you can't play them profitably any longer by just calling pre-flop. If you were to play them, you would have to play them aggressively in the context of a blind-steal or a steal re-raise, as we will see later.

BLIND STEAL


A blind-steal, the practice of stealing the blinds, is accomplished by threatening the other players with a raise before the flop so that they all fold and you can collect the blinds. This works a lot better in the later positions, of course, and only when everyone in front of you folded.

That's why the following rules apply to blind steals:

* All players in front of you have folded.
* You are in late position (CO or BU) or in the small blind (SB).
* You want to force the other players to give up and you do not want to play for a big pot against them.

This means: if all the players in front of you get out of the hand and you are in late position or the small blind, you raise. This isn't all, however, as you can't simply steal the blinds with any two cards. They can be weaker than the cards you would usually raise with, but they should at least have some sort of chance to win, in case the steal doesn't succeed and a player decides to call your raise.
A blind steal is only possible if all the players in front of you have folded and you find yourself in the CO, BU or SB.

Your position
You raise as a blindsteal with ...
Cut-off - CO
Aces AJ
Kings KQ
Pairs 99, 88, 77, 66

Button - BU
Aces AJ, AT
Kings KQ, KJ, KT
Queens
QJ
Pairs 99, 88, 77, 66, 55, 44, 33, 22

Small Blind - SB
Aces AJ, AT, A9, A8
Kings KQ, KJ, KT, K9
Queens
QJ, QT
Pairs 99, 88, 77, 66, 55, 44, 33, 22

RESTEAL

What is a steal re-raise?

You've just learned that a raise in the middle phase doesn't necessarily mean you're up against a strong hand. This opens up the opportunity for another move: the steal re-raise.

A steal re-raise is quite a simple move: if a single player raised in front of you and no one else has called him so far, you go all-in right away, trying to steal the pot.

This works in the long run if you follow these three rules:

* A single opponent has raised.
* No one except for that one player has entered the hand so far.
* A steal re-raise always equates to going all-in right away and putting all of your chips at stake.

If someone has entered the hand in front of the raise or if someone has called it, the situation is not good for a steal re-raise.

You can't just execute a steal re-raise with any two cards either, as was also the case for the blind-steal. They should at least be good enough to not be completely hopeless in case your opponent doesn't give up and calls your all-in.

So far, it has also been important what position you're in. For a steal re-raise, what's important is the opponent's position, however. There is one simple reason for this: even though a lot of players might not know the principle of position, a player will usually raise with stronger hands in early position.

The following overview shows you in which situations you can react to an opponent's raise with an all-in. For simplicity's sake, it also includes all the hands with which you would put all your chips in anyway, such as for example, a pair of aces.

Overview of all possible steal re-raise hands

Opponent's position
You go all-in for a steal re-raise with ...
Early position
Aces AK, AQ
Pairs AA, KK, QQ, JJ

Middle position
Aces AK, AQ
Pairs AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT

Late position
Aces AK, AQ, AJ
Pairs AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88

Small blind
Aces AK, AQ, AJ
Kings KQ
Pairs AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, 77
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Re: Grinding tips?

Postby chenghao » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:44 pm

In late stage is an art , generally u should push or fold

Use an ICM trainer to help you understand this stage better

If there are 4 players left , EP you should be pushing with like 12 % of your hands
BTN you should be pushing with 50 % of your hands and SB with almost all of your hands ( if BB doesn't defend )

Any Ace or Pocket pair is good for push. Suited Kings and Queens are good for a top pair kinda hand , suited connectors drop in value compared to 2 high cards as you want to hit something like top pair more often and it will win you the hand.

When you are heads up , SAGE model is quite useful to

SAGE stands for Sit and GO end game

Google for SAGE and ICM to learn more about late game

anyway For Bankroll Management :

Never spend more than 2% of your balance for a single Sit and Go (excluding rake).

if say you deposit $50 , but still willing to deposit more then you can be aggressive with your BRM ( like more then 2 %)


Step 1: The $1 tournaments

If you have less than $100, you play tournaments with a maximal entry fee of $1 (without rake).

Step 2: the $2 tournaments

You need at least $100 to start playing the $2 tournaments.

Step 3: the $2.50 (or $3) tournaments

You need at least $125 for the $2.50 tournaments. Some poker rooms also offer $3.00 tournaments, for which you will need a minimum of $150.

Step 4: the $5 (or $6) tournaments

If you managed to build up your bankroll to $250, you can now play $5 tournaments. Again, some poker rooms offer $6 tournaments instead, where you need $300.

Having said that , its ok to start with 3.30 Sng on PS as compared to 1.20 Sng once you get a hang of the strategy as the rake on 1.20 is 20 % compared to 3.30 which is 10 % , which is a huge difference !

On note taking , for me i sometimes play 6 table SnG , so i take a note of the players that are on 2 or more of my tables , i only note them as the rest are not worth the effort to note ( these SnG regulars are the ones that you will come across again eventually @ that stakes)

Another thing to note is once you identified these people as regulars , re-stealing against them is much more effective then against non regulars. These people tend to contest your blinds more in a Blinds vs blinds situation so you can defend against them more willingly !

Here is another guide to "crushing SnG"

http://www.pokerstars.net/poker/promoti ... tsplay.pdf
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Re: Grinding tips?

Postby alasdair12 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:17 pm

There are very nice tips. They are very helpful for the people. They have given very specific and clear information so there is no problem. Some of them very interesting tips which I can not think about it. Its good work!
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Re: Grinding tips?

Postby LunarWolfspirit » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:00 pm

Any applications you guys use that is good? I doubt the guy in the video can "play the players" as well as he did without an app like that. I heard PokerTracker is the pretty standard one.
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Re: Grinding tips?

Postby keldraco » Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:47 pm

i agreed with changhao. i play single table sng. has more action & is much more fun. In cash game u just camp... if u can make good pre-flop play, don't rush and stay focus for the short 1hr+, u can get to top 3 very easily(micro sng).
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Re: Grinding tips?

Postby chenghao » Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:31 pm

LunarWolfspirit wrote:Any applications you guys use that is good? I doubt the guy in the video can "play the players" as well as he did without an app like that. I heard PokerTracker is the pretty standard one.

Hold Em Manager / poker tracker and similar HUDs are pretty standard tools

Poker Stove / Equilator are good stuffs . SnGwiz is good for higher buy in SnGs i heard

http://www.sngwiz.com/tiki/tiki-index.php

Within HEM itself , Table ninja (need to buy in addition to HEM , and for Pokerstars only ) is good as it helps by macroing with certain commands like pressing a key to bet 2/3 the pot etc.

Another thing about SnG is preferences for the sequence
Two styles : Continuous(start a new table when one table is gone) and sets ( start like 8 tables then play until all 8 is gone)
Advantage of playing in Sets : Blinds are the same , raises amount are the same , most of your tables will slip into the same phase ( early /mid /late) . When you reach short handed , if say you play 8 tables , u will probably be left with like 4 and short handed is very fast and u need to make the decisions much faster , its optimised that way.

Advantage of playing in continuous : At higher buy ins there might be lesser tables available so you want to be in the next one that starts always.

A Hybrid would be to play up to 8 tables , then start 8 sets first , when 4 is down , start another 4 sets until you reach the volume you want.
If you do play continuous do note what is your exit strategy like i am going stop starting new tables after a fixed timing

Before SnG , do use ICM trainer to help you figure out the various push or fold spots. Its a good idea to quickly review all your objective before you start a set / session.
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Re: Grinding tips?

Postby cse2k » Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:49 pm

Guys I'm using the Freepokerdb which is free but abit complicated to install and setup. but since its free and quite nice to use. I had a questions is that, i managed to work my game through these few days by learning to play with big stack and how to play TAG, which is quite nice tha you wont lose much and able to win. but I had a problem is that how much do you guys buy out when playing big stack? for example I have been very not happy with my play for today as I've able to play through an hour to climb from 2 dollar to 3 dollar and lost it all in a row with 3 same hand == THE <AK>, so i was wondering maybe i'm on tilt or being not that patient anymore since playing 2 hour non stop or I should be buying after earning half of my big stack? any suggestions? by the way my play is getting better happy with all the help from you guys, and I got a "shark" status in the poker-edge lolx
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