How can I play this hand better?

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How can I play this hand better?

Postby AceKing » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:32 pm

Full Tilt Poker Game #23379467145: $1 + $0.20 Sit & Go (180730982), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 10:28:58 ET - 2010/08/26
Seat 1: dongo43 (1,500)
Seat 2: Open-Ender7 (1,500)
Seat 3: gonalves57 (1,500)
Seat 4: Eduardus007 (1,500)
Seat 5: PocketAde (1,500)
Seat 6: aliska61 (1,500)
dongo43 posts the small blind of 15
Open-Ender7 posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to PocketAde [8c 8s]
gonalves57 calls 30
Eduardus007 calls 30
PocketAde raises to 90
aliska61 folds
dongo43 folds
Open-Ender7 folds
gonalves57 calls 60
Eduardus007 calls 60
*** FLOP *** [Jc Ac 3c]
gonalves57 bets 30
Eduardus007 calls 30
PocketAde raises to 90
gonalves57 calls 60
Eduardus007 folds
*** TURN *** [Jc Ac 3c] [9h]
gonalves57 bets 60
PocketAde calls 60
*** RIVER *** [Jc Ac 3c 9h] [Kh]
gonalves57 bets 30
PocketAde calls 30
*** SHOW DOWN ***
gonalves57 shows [5s As] a pair of Aces
PocketAde mucks
gonalves57 wins the pot (705) with a pair of Aces
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 705 | Rake 0
Board: [Jc Ac 3c 9h Kh]
Seat 1: dongo43 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: Open-Ender7 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: gonalves57 showed [5s As] and won (705) with a pair of Aces
Seat 4: Eduardus007 folded on the Flop
Seat 5: PocketAde mucked [8c 8s] - a pair of Eights
Seat 6: aliska61 (button) didn't bet (folded)

Raised from the cut off with 88, got called but with position. Flop gives me a flush draw, and possibly giving someone a flush. Reraised a min raise, one folded, the original raiser called. Min raises me on the turn and river. I chose to call both streets. Should I have raised? Or folded?
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Re: How can I play this hand better?

Postby chenghao » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:45 pm

raise more pre flop

@15/30 w 1500 behind , a raise to 120 + 30 x number of limpers will be nice

or u can set mine with it by calling only preflop since someone else limped 2 , then fold the flop when ur 8 misses.

remember in the early stages , its vital to conserve every chip.
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Re: How can I play this hand better?

Postby iZech » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:47 pm

just my 2cent

i will have fold on flop

ther is 2 over card and flush possible like u have said some1 may have alr hit flush which ur drawing pretty dead unless runner house for u
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Re: How can I play this hand better?

Postby AceKing » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:57 pm

Thanks for the advices. But isn't villain under-betting a little with top pair? I seldom call a raise OOP with Ace rag, but if I do and hit top pair on the flop, I would probably bet more to see where I stand, no?
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Re: How can I play this hand better?

Postby iZech » Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:06 am

my 2cents.

i think his bet is more of block bet + scare ppl got higher kick ace + flush or may hit flush later on?

as i believe if he dun bet and check to u, u will bet?
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Re: How can I play this hand better?

Postby Froggy » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:00 am

Flat pre, flat/fold flop, fold turn.

What are you trying to accomplish when you raise him on the flop? An Ace is never going to fold there, the K clubs is almost never going to fold to 90. Even if the 4th clubs got there on the turn do you think you are good?

Always remember why u play a hand in the 1st place. 88 = setmine.
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Re: How can I play this hand better?

Postby xcaliblur » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:56 pm

I agree with the poster before me. That was a TERRIBLE flop for pocket 8s. And considering you raised preflop and had more than 1 caller~ its almost certain at least one of them has an A, a Jack or a bigger club> meaning you are likely going to only draw to a 2 outer to win that hand, and that is only if no one has already made a flush.

That is a muck at flop hand.

Remember the nice thing about pocket pairs is that when you hit your set you are most likely good and get to win a huge pot, but when you dont, its an easy fold and you lose a small pot only.
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Re: How can I play this hand better?

Postby suitedpairs29 » Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:03 pm

I think that 88 is played too fast (aggressive) preflop. I limp with this hand and always to try see a flop cheaply and see if I can hit a set. Simple rule for small-medium pairs is "No Set, No Bet". This way I save money, calling and raising with these kinds of pairs lose money long term if the amounts are too large. After all, you only hit a set 1 out of 10 times.

After the weak leads (weak because it is the minimum bet) I raise huge representing the Ace or just fold. I raise to about 180 or 200 to show extreme strength. If anyone calls, I am done with the hand. This line is only if you had raised preflop. If you limp and miss, just fold.

I dont like calling here to try and catch bluffs because based on the flop texture all you are beating is a gutshot straight draw like KQ or KT. Also, your flush draw is almost never good here. There is no point drawing to it as there is no way you will be raising it for value when you do hit.
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Re: How can I play this hand better?

Postby chenghao » Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:12 pm

oh another thing is , its ok to limp if a guy before you did so(gonalves57 calls 30 Eduardus007 calls 30)

, its not a good idea to open limp ( when you are first into the pot , without any money already in the pot ) as regulars will catch on that you open limp and fold with PP to try to hit set . once they catch this idea of yours , they will play against your fit or fold by raising when you limp , and betting any flop on the 8/9 occasions that you missed your set.

so with this idea in mind , its ok to fold smaller PP with little showdown value from UTG if there are regulars who will abuse your pattern. otherwise , setmining might be profitable if no one raises/squeeze behind
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Re: How can I play this hand better?

Postby AceKing » Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:03 pm

Thanks for the advices, I learned quite a bit from some of the comments:
suitedpairs29 wrote:Also, your flush draw is almost never good here. There is no point drawing to it as there is no way you will be raising it for value when you do hit.


Never really thought about it that way. It's true that I'll never raise for value if I hit the flush, It just gives me another reason to make a 50-50 call (either his flush or my flush is better).




chenghao wrote:oh another thing is , its ok to limp if a guy before you did so, its not a good idea to open limp.


Another thing that I have forgotten in poker. I've been playing so many games and somehow got into the habit of never limping regardless of the situation. As a result, my pre flop raises gets called very often by multiple players when I raise with pocket pairs when there were multiple limpers. I forgotten that there are some situations when limping is actually ok.




Again, thanks to all who gave their 2 cents. =)
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