I made a bad call

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I made a bad call

Postby AceKing » Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:52 pm

Full Tilt Poker Game #23772808624: $150 Freeroll (183629037), Table 29 - 2000/4000 Ante 500 - No Limit Hold'em - 03:43:48 ET - 2010/09/10
Seat 1: trvlnmn (72,071)
Seat 3: NARUTO197505 (541), is sitting out
Seat 4: PocketAde (90,060)
Seat 5: Viking2487 (124,272)
Seat 6: KrIsTtHeBeSt (298,374)
Seat 7: jay_boy_2936 (1,175), is sitting out
Seat 8: Hector Mendez Z (90,613)
Seat 9: chelseeperez (69,524)
trvlnmn antes 500
NARUTO197505 antes 500
PocketAde antes 500
Viking2487 antes 500
KrIsTtHeBeSt antes 500
jay_boy_2936 antes 500
Hector Mendez Z antes 500
chelseeperez antes 500
Viking2487 posts the small blind of 2,000
KrIsTtHeBeSt posts the big blind of 4,000
The button is in seat #4
Viking2487: and keep getting dealt pocket pairs, minimum of 10's
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to PocketAde [Ac Kc]
jay_boy_2936 folds
EddyHeavy (Observer): but i made flush and he full
Hector Mendez Z calls 4,000
chelseeperez calls 4,000
EddyHeavy (Observer): thats so sick
trvlnmn folds
NARUTO197505 folds
EddyHeavy (Observer): OK donkament
PocketAde raises to 20,000
Viking2487 folds
EddyHeavy (Observer): but sick software
KrIsTtHeBeSt calls 16,000
Hector Mendez Z raises to 90,113, and is all in
chelseeperez folds
PocketAde calls 69,560, and is all in
KrIsTtHeBeSt folds
Hector Mendez Z shows [Ah Ad]
PocketAde shows [Ac Kc]
Uncalled bet of 553 returned to Hector Mendez Z
*** FLOP *** [5d 2h 9s]
*** TURN *** [5d 2h 9s] [6c]
*** RIVER *** [5d 2h 9s 6c] [Qd]
Hector Mendez Z shows a pair of Aces
PocketAde shows Ace King high
Hector Mendez Z wins the pot (209,120) with a pair of Aces
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 209,120 | Rake 0
Board: [5d 2h 9s 6c Qd]
Seat 1: trvlnmn folded before the Flop
Seat 3: NARUTO197505 folded before the Flop
Seat 4: PocketAde (button) showed [Ac Kc] and lost with Ace King high
Seat 5: Viking2487 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: KrIsTtHeBeSt (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: jay_boy_2936 folded before the Flop
Seat 8: Hector Mendez Z showed [Ah Ad] and won (209,120) with a pair of Aces
Seat 9: chelseeperez folded before the Flop


Villain limped and reraised my raise all-in. With a huge stack, of course he had AA, what was I thinking? =(

Knocked out at 141st place, top 45 pays.
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Re: I made a bad call

Postby suitedpairs29 » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:00 pm

Not a bad call.

You got unlucky. You have about 20BB with AKs with 2 limpers in front of you. With a lot of dead money in the pot, this is a good break for you. Villain could limp shove even AQ or pocket pair between 99-QQ here. You just happened to run into one of the two hands that has you crushed.

Most players would do this 95% of the time, the other 5% are too tight.
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Re: I made a bad call

Postby AceKing » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:23 pm

suitedpairs29 wrote:Not a bad call.

You got unlucky. You have about 20BB with AKs with 2 limpers in front of you. With a lot of dead money in the pot, this is a good break for you. Villain could limp shove even AQ or pocket pair between 99-QQ here. You just happened to run into one of the two hands that has you crushed.

Most players would do this 95% of the time, the other 5% are too tight.


Personally I'd prefer to be the one shoving my hand instead of the one calling. After all, by calling I have no fold equity.
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Re: I made a bad call

Postby axel » Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:06 am

Since you put villian on AA, if you have KK in the same spot, you're folding as well?
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Re: I made a bad call

Postby AceKing » Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:26 am

axel wrote:Since you put villian on AA, if you have KK in the same spot, you're folding as well?


I'll never fold KK preflop. That being said, I didn't really mean it when I say "of course he has AA", more like a big pocket pair. Since all pocket pairs are ahead of AK, it seems like a bad call to me. I mean even 22 is a slight fav against AK, no?
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Re: I made a bad call

Postby xcaliblur » Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:34 am

But dont forget you are in a tournament with about 20BB left and you have already commited 1/4 of your stack prior to his all-in.

Its true that any pocket pair is a slight favourite against AK, but that is only by a few % (not counting AA and KK or course). In this situation, seeing that the pot is giving you better than a 1:1 odds, you have the right odds to call an all in. Besides, in a tournament sooner or later youll have to make a stand, and AK is as good as it gets.

Plus like previous poster says, no way to tell that villain has AA, theres a chance he/she might have AQ or AJ etc in which case youre huge favourite.
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Re: I made a bad call

Postby KingKongMike » Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:47 pm

From my point of view, any all-in preflop is a gamble, even the most tight player can bluff, AKs stand a good chance to double up your stack. If he calls your raise n the flop hav an A with 2 dry cards, are u going to fold to his all in or check-all in? To me, to call an all in preflop with premium hands is to see who gets lucky.
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Re: I made a bad call

Postby suitedpairs29 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:20 am

AceKing wrote:
suitedpairs29 wrote:Not a bad call.

You got unlucky. You have about 20BB with AKs with 2 limpers in front of you. With a lot of dead money in the pot, this is a good break for you. Villain could limp shove even AQ or pocket pair between 99-QQ here. You just happened to run into one of the two hands that has you crushed.

Most players would do this 95% of the time, the other 5% are too tight.


Personally I'd prefer to be the one shoving my hand instead of the one calling. After all, by calling I have no fold equity.


Since you are going for preferences, why limit yourself to just having fold equity? Might as well prefer flopping flushes when you have suited cards and quads when you have a pocket pair.

It cant be a bad call here with the 3rd best hand in holdem. You cant be afraid of being dominated everytime. If you have 50bb and stacked off with AK preflop, then maybe you can say it was bad. But you have 20BB and after 3 limpers, theres a lot of dead money to pick up. Not every limp is suspicious, sometimes players just play bad and you have to hope you hold.

Villain doesnt always have AA or KK here. If that were the case, online poker would be a lot tougher
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Re: I made a bad call

Postby Froggy » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:51 am

suitedpairs29 wrote:
AceKing wrote:
suitedpairs29 wrote:Villain doesnt always have AA or KK here. If that were the case, online poker would be a lot tougher


+1 Just have to know their range :D (that was what my Shifu taught me!)
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Re: I made a bad call

Postby xcaliblur » Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:56 pm

In the end, in that scenario AK is definitely worth to call an all in. Not counting AA or KK (which actually is quite unlikely seeing that you hold both an A and a King), the worst case scenario for AK is about a 50-50 chance preflop. That means with all the dead money and with you being on short stack, you are getting the right odds to call.

Plus villain could always have hands like KQ or AQ or something in that range in which you dominate, making you a huge favourite to win.

And lastly, in tournaments, the blinds are just going to keep raising. With 20BB you HAVE to make a gamble like this sooner or later. If you cant do it with AK on the short stack, then tournament play isnt suited for you.

Same holds true for KK. You should just never fold KK ever. Even Daniel Negreanu mentioned once in one of his books that you should never ever fold KK, even if you think your opponent might have aces. The reason being is that KK holds up most of the time against every other hand in poker~ and in those rare instances against aces you still have about a 18% chance of winning. If you average out the hand, taking aces into consideration, then KK would still come up as + EV if you go all-in preflop against a random hand.
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Re: I made a bad call

Postby Afternoon » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:17 am

Is a freeroll, ppl can push all-in with any 2 hole cards. Calling with AK is never a bad call unless you have superb reading skill.
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Re: I made a bad call

Postby xcaliblur » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:14 am

Heck even if you KNOW the other person has QQ, calling the all-in with AK is still worth it, given the dead money in the pot + the fact that you are short stacked.
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