"Set" Up

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"Set" Up

Postby suitedpairs29 » Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:07 pm

Played at Midas Touch, a live pokerroom in manila, (10/20) earlier today and wanted some feedback on this hand:

I limp in UTG+1 with [2d] [2s] and so does the entire table. I tell myself that the flop will come for sure with a deuce because no one is limping with a deuce in their hand. Lo and behold the flop comes [Th] [2h] [Ks] . Checked to me and I do the same as well because I know for sure that someone hit this flop and I can try and play a big pot with my hand. Checked around to a solid tournament player (He is a regular at most big tournaments) on the cut-off who bets out P80 into a P160 pot (8 limpers). Folded around to me and I raise it up to P230 (Too small of a raise?). Before the hand began, effective stacks are about 2.1k each. He asks how much and calls the additional P150. The turn is the [Qc] which is fairly scary because J9 and AJ just got there. Pot is now P720 and I lead for P400 (Again, too small?). Villain then shoves all-in. Pot is now at P1520 and I need to call about P1400 more. Whats your play here and why? Ill post results later.

If you need to know about table dynamics, both me and him have not played alot of hands together and we have both been relatively tight and solid. No big confrontations previously and never were caught we marginal or bad hands.

Any and all comments are welcome!
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Re: "Set" Up

Postby kklp » Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:24 pm

His actions up till the point of his shoving on the turn probably means that he hit KQ for 2 pair, so i would call for 1400 more.
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Re: "Set" Up

Postby chenghao » Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:34 pm

should u play 22 - 66 UTG ? given this sorta of passive table probably to see a cheap flop, its ok to fold too.

i would go in with a raise preflop , bet pot flop and turn
otherwise astute players will pick up your limps UTG = weak pp and will raise u to oblivion

the board is rather drawy , while he might pick up his gutshot , chances are he might hit a pair + OESD , he might still have flush draw , he might have the wierd 2 pair hand.

how does he play his made hands on a draw heavy board? on a dry board? IP/OOP / HU / multiway ?
how does he play his draw hands IP/OP / HU / multiway ?

given any history , you will be at a better position to decide.

given no history , your plan is to bet/fold or bet/call ?

both have their merits as if u plan to reload to play more , i would bet/call for information
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Re: "Set" Up

Postby axel » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:17 pm

Flop raise should be at least 320, your raise size is giving him better than 3-to-1, too good to continue with a bare flush draw with immediate pot odds. I'm not too worried about villian having a higher set, and if you have raised larger on the flop, the hand will pretty much plays itself on the turn (btw, pot size on turn should be 620 instead of 720 in OP).
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Re: "Set" Up

Postby LamerL » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:04 pm

With the way the flop played out i am putting him on a [Kh] with a flush draw, when he shove on the turn he probably hit his Q together with it, so most probably [Kh] [Qh] .

Reason being since you said that you were both relatively tight and solid and have not played with each other much, if he had [Ks] [Ts] of any sort he would probably have 3bet you on the flop to protect his top 2 in the case that you are reraising with a flush draw/straight draw. Chances of him having a set there is pretty slim as he limped in the cutoff. Also the odd chance of him having ( [9h] [Jh] ) and making a gutshot straight on the turn.
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Re: "Set" Up

Postby Brasstal » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:40 pm

i think u played it fine, if he has KK TT then badluck. His range will consist of K T, Q T, K Q, even K J a lot here.

You are only drawing dead to T T and K K. You still have outs against the made straights and you crush the hands you are ahead of in his range.

Snap call please.
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Re: "Set" Up

Postby snipeprig » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:27 pm

IMHO, chances that he have TT or KK are quite low. if he have KK he will reraise on the preflop instead of letting pple limp in, so lets cancel out KK. as for TT, if he have TT, he will not juz flat ur raise on the flop, probably juz shove u all in instead of the turn
U mentioned that he raise on the flop, when u reraise him, the kind of cards he can most probably call u with will be dubs or flush with open ended/gutshot draw. when the turn came, he check to u, letting u bet out and he shove, representing that the Q helped him in sum way. if he make a straight, i tink AJ suited will do a raise on preflop on the cut off, so i'm not putting him on AJ as well. J9 suited is a possible, another possible hand will be KQ suited. do not know much abt that player, KQ suited i might also consider raising on the cutoff.
So, either i am putting him on J9 of hearts which he got there, or he is making a represent that he made his draw since its such a heavy drawing board. if you can put him on J9, u should fold ur set, u are drawing to a 10 outs, which is abt 30% onli. i mean, i would fold my hand if i put him on a made straight since its about the whole tourney stack that is involved, but tt is onli if i believe his straight got there. Den again, i'm juz a donkey
Last edited by snipeprig on Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Set" Up

Postby AceKing » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:32 pm

I wonder why would he shove the turn.... If he hit his straight and is trying to protect his hand, shoving is overkill. He should want his opponent to call his turn bet (which doesn't give the right odds), and when his opponent misses (it happens more often than not) he can extract some value on the river. Shoving will result in all flush draws folding.

If he puts you on a set, he would want you to call his turn even more, the chances of your hand improving is minimal, he should try to extract value. Instead, he shoved.

Noticed that I mentioned how he "should" be playing. What I'm saying is that if he's the type who semi-bluffs the flop on a straight draw, his style of play would be more like what I mentioned (IMO).



So, I think he's trying to protect his 2 pair against flush and straight draws, or he's making a terrible bluff. I'm leaning towards the former. Call him and see him turn over his KQ of diamonds.




P.S: He might have read my entire thought process I mentioned above and decide to shove against that. Other than that, I'm fairly confident. =p


Just my 2 cents.
Last edited by AceKing on Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: "Set" Up

Postby AceKing » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:33 pm

snipeprig wrote:when the turn came, he check to u, letting u bet out and he shove, representing that the Q helped him in sum way.



He didn't check raise the turn, Hero was OOP.
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Re: "Set" Up

Postby Afternoon » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:56 pm

suitedpairs29 wrote:I limp in UTG+1 with [2d] [2s] and so does the entire table. I tell myself that the flop will come for sure with a deuce because no one is limping with a deuce in their hand. Lo and behold the flop comes [Th] [2h] [Ks] . Checked to me and I do the same as well because I know for sure that someone hit this flop and I can try and play a big pot with my hand. Checked around to a solid tournament player (He is a regular at most big tournaments) on the cut-off who bets out P80 into a P160 pot (8 limpers). Folded around to me and I raise it up to P230 (Too small of a raise?). Before the hand began, effective stacks are about 2.1k each. He asks how much and calls the additional P150. The turn is the [Qc] which is fairly scary because J9 and AJ just got there. Pot is now P720 and I lead for P400 (Again, too small?). Villain then shoves all-in. Pot is now at P1520 and I need to call about P1400 more. Whats your play here and why? Ill post results later.


If i am having a cards like [Jh] [Qh] , i would like to build up the pot with a small value bet post flop as i got up down ST8 draw as well as flush draw. At the turn i hit my second pair push all in as i have evn more outers as well as got fold equity from opponents.

Also not likely that he have hit st8 as he wanted you out by shoving allin. i would min raise you at the turn if i got AJ or J9.

Not likely the villian having a over pair as he would have raised prefold at the cut-off as too many players limbed in. Playing high suited cards suit a tight player and high suited connector able to extract most value.
Last edited by Afternoon on Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Set" Up

Postby axel » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:57 pm

snipeprig wrote:So, either i am putting him on J9 of hearts which he got there, or he is making a represent that he made his draw since its such a heavy drawing board. if you can put him on J9, u should fold ur set, u are drawing to a 10 outs, which is abt 30% onli. i mean, i would fold my hand if i put him on a made straight since its about the whole tourney stack that is involved, but tt is onli if i believe his straight got there. Den again, i'm juz a donkey

This hand is played in a cash game, not a tournament.

AceKing: Villian's shove is around a potsize raise, if you think it is too much then how much should he be raising to?
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Re: "Set" Up

Postby snipeprig » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:00 pm

like i said, i'm a donk, din realise its a cash game even. lolz
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Re: "Set" Up

Postby AceKing » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:21 pm

axel wrote:AceKing: Villian's shove is around a potsize raise, if you think it is too much then how much should he be raising to?


Good point, I missed that bit. Let me re-gather my thoughts.
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Re: "Set" Up

Postby suitedpairs29 » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:16 pm

Thanks for the responses guys.

I did, in fact, call. I was in 2 minds about it initially but couldnt put him on a hand that would try and take down the pot on the flop. I didnt think he would call a raise with a gutshot. I was sure he did not have TT or KK as he limped in late position. He was a fairly competent player and I was sure he would raise with those strong hands. He did have KJ for the open ender plus top pair. The river paired T and I won a gigantic pot.

I am never folding here but I just wondered if it would be possible to fold here if you knew 100% that villain has the straight? Probably not as well.
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