Should I have folded?

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Should I have folded?

Postby fonatic » Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:40 pm

http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/view.php/id/2766194

I know it's terrible pot odds to be calling a bet on the flop with a gutshot and I got lucky hitting it on the turn. But the flop was extremely draw heavy, being a heart flush draw and an open ended straight draw if anyone had a 6. My intention was to bluff at the pot if any of the draws landed. Hence, was it very bad play to have made the call on the flop?

Looking forward to hear some opinions. Thanks.
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Re: Should I have folded?

Postby Vinally » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:13 pm

i dont understand you.

if u have TJs, flop 567, u should check/call to hope for s8. if nothing on turn, u should fold. but the guy bet very thin on turn, u should raise him to let him know that you have s8 though u are buffing, if he call you, then showdown on river to hope for s8 or fold.

if you are that guy A8s on button, u bet on flop, sb call you. on turn, it is showing already s8 for sb(maybe), u should bet 3/4 not very thin, though it look dangerous on you and him well, if he call you on turn, mean that u have to check/fold on river.

:)
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Re: Should I have folded?

Postby fonatic » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:17 pm

hmmm, the flop was 5h7s8h. I'm "hero" i.e. the SB. I was check called the flop hoping to spike the gutshot 9 or bluff if any heart or 4 lands.
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Re: Should I have folded?

Postby chenghao » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:21 pm

http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showfla ... page=&vc=1

Ok, so that's how you play open preflop poker at this level. It's going to be a lot of folding, but you need to play tight at these tables, because no one ever folds. The situation is a little different if someone has acted in front of you. This does take a little bit of judgement on your part. You need to decide whether or not this player is tight. If they are, you need to respect their raises. Be careful if someone raises from first position, as this is usually a good hand. You also need to be aware of stack sizes at this point and follow the 5-10 rule. What is the 5-10 rule? Glad you asked. The 5-10 rule means that you should call a raise with a speculative hand (suited aces and small pairs) if you're investing less than 5% of your stack (or his, whoever's is the smallest), and should fold if you're investing more than 10%. If it's somewhere inbetween you need to use your best judgement. Here's your standards.

if you follow this 5-10 rule , you should not call preflop. cos 0.75 is like 18 % of your stack already.

if you wanna play short stack , its optimal to adhere to short stack strategy , if you wanna play like this , deeper stack will be better.

on the flop you had gutshot + 2 overs (if they are ever clean) , he bets $1 into a 2.25 pot and you call

so to the turn , you have $2.35 left , pot is $4.25 , 10 (4 9s , 3 Ts , 3Js )/ 45 , you will hit your hand , 35/45 cards will make you miss. While its cheap to draw , you dun have deep enough stack to make it worth the while
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Re: Should I have folded?

Postby fonatic » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:36 pm

I see where you're coming from. And I definitely agree that my stack was too short there, should have topped up.

I agree that 35 out of 45 cards will make me miss. But my logic in calling that bet was that there were 11 hearts and 4x 4s which would also complete a straight draw and a flush draw as well. I didn't put him on a flush draw because based on his style thus far, it felt like he had an overpair as his hole cards. So that's 21 cards which I felt that I wanted to see (assuming the TJ overs are still clean). Hence giving me 21/45 = 0.4667 vs the bet of $1 into the $2.25 pot 1/2.25 = 0.4444. Assuming my stack was deeper, will the call on the flop then be alright taking into consideration what I just said?
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Re: Should I have folded?

Postby chenghao » Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:43 am

he doesn't think that deep :mrgreen:
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Re: Should I have folded?

Postby Vinally » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:01 am

such a deep thinking u have, chenghao.

Will love to meet and play with you one of these days. :)
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Re: Should I have folded?

Postby chenghao » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:35 am

I rather play with girls though :mrgreen:
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Re: Should I have folded?

Postby fonatic » Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:03 pm

you mean i don't think that deep? :D
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Re: Should I have folded?

Postby chenghao » Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:44 pm

You can bluff only if your opponent thinks and is able to fold
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Re: Should I have folded?

Postby axel » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:19 pm

Allin on flop seems to be a better play.

OP's logic is flawed, you claimed that villian probably has an overpair, so you effectively only has 4 outs to a gutshot. The only hand which you have some equity against is 99, so you will never have more than 8 outs against an overpair. Facing a halfpot cbet, I doubt you even have the odds to call and try to hit something on the turn. By shoving on flop, you can probably fold out non-pair hands which are leading you on the flop.

Then again, with 16bb effective stack, you should have folded preflop.
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Re: Should I have folded?

Postby imtheone » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:57 pm

bluffing is a risk...

but don't think to hard..

just enjoy the game and have fun bro.... :) :)
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