ICM

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ICM

Postby keldraco » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:47 pm

Hi guys. One of the hand from a $1 + $0.20 single table SNG.

Blind: 75/150 no ante
MP1 (3405 in chips)---fold
MP2 (1465 in chips)--->me
MP3 (1465 in chips)
CO (1395 in chips)
BU (2305 in chips)
SB (2355 in chips after posting)
BB (885 in chips after posting)

I later check with the ICM trainer, and here is the pushing range for MP2,
22+, A7s+, A5s-A4s, ATo+, K9s+, KJo+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s

In actually case i have pocket 9, so it was a pretty clear push. Even though it painful since it will either be dominated or a coin flip if called. The question is do we really have to follow the ICM to be a correct play? For example, if i have QTs, A9s, JTs or 55 i don't really know what i will do. Mostly depend on the table or the 'feel' perhaps. What will happen if i pass out a few of those hands that i'm suppose to push? Will it be a negative value play in a long run?
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Re: ICM

Postby chenghao » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:24 pm

i think there are 2 types of strength , absolute and relative

absolute strength = ICM , mathematical decision done in vacuum , you dun take into consideration the players' play style , only their chip , your cards , the action , the stack sizes the positions etc.

relative strength = observing their tendencies and making the best decision to exploit their strategy , if any.

Given no history , follow ICM . If you have any reason to deviate from the strategy , it has to be a good reason.

if you have " 22+, A7s+, A5s-A4s, ATo+, K9s+, KJo+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s" and no reads , do as the ICM tells you to - push it all in.

if you pass out a few of those hands that you are supposed to push , you might lose that 1.5 BB that you might have stolen , that could later on make a difference in ITM-ing or placing in which position. Over many SnGS , it could result in a drop in ROI like from 15% to 14 %

the fewer mistakes you make , the more you win
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Re: ICM

Postby axel » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:00 am

At this level, it's not surprising to get called by weak Ax-type hand, which you are a 2-1 favourite against. 99 is as good as you can get.
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Re: ICM

Postby Brasstal » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:26 am

hi Keld you can always adjust the ICM bar

adjust them accordingly to what you think their range is. As axel says at this level you can actually adjust their calling range. Just drag only and the ICM programme will tell you if its a push/fold.

Its a standard push usually but there are arguments these days for raising.

1.) You raise call -> you raise for value hoping to get callers or a reshover since you open a spot up for them to "resteal" instead of closing out the action by shoving and only getting calls from TT + (which u get owned) and prob 88 and 77.
2.) You raise fold -> when you feel that pple can only reshove you with TT+ and AQ+ and will never call your shove

There is also the argument of since you are going to raise call, it is better to just shove. This is true if you want to reduce variance and prefer not to have any callers. This will be particularly true with hands like 22-88 or ATs + KQ etc. Really depends on your range it can be sick wide in fact if your open shoving. So just get a read on your opponents and decide on the best tool!

gl
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Re: ICM

Postby keldraco » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:24 pm

Another question: when i key in the stack size into the ICM should i include the blind or the size after they post the blind?
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