folding kings to a 4bet

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folding kings to a 4bet

Postby keldraco » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:50 pm

Full Tilt Poker Game #27174841785: Table Clematis - $0.01/$0.02 - No Limit Hold'em - 04:58:17 ET - 2011/01/11
Seat 1: Schlaumayer ($1.30)
Seat 2: bartemiysnat ($1.59)
Seat 3: Fearless98404 ($0.99)
Seat 4: flemo9 ($1.90)
Seat 5: LuvYourKids ($3.57)
Seat 6: sukmen ($1.25)
Seat 7: shimar2 ($1.91)
Seat 8: parik899 ($2)
Seat 9: keldraco ($1.81)
Schlaumayer posts the small blind of $0.01
bartemiysnat posts the big blind of $0.02
parik899 posts $0.02
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to keldraco [Ks Kd]
Fearless98404 folds
flemo9 folds
LuvYourKids folds
sukmen calls $0.02
shimar2 raises to $0.12
parik899 folds
parik899 adds $0.02
keldraco raises to $0.40
Schlaumayer folds
bartemiysnat folds
sukmen folds
shimar2 has 15 seconds left to act
shimar2 raises to $1.20
keldraco raises to $1.81, and is all in
shimar2 calls $0.61
keldraco shows [Ks Kd]
shimar2 shows [Ah Ad]
*** FLOP *** [2c 2d 2h]
*** TURN *** [2c 2d 2h] [6d]
*** RIVER *** [2c 2d 2h 6d] [7s]
keldraco shows a full house, Twos full of Kings
shimar2 shows a full house, Twos full of Aces
shimar2 wins the pot ($3.45) with a full house, Twos full of Aces
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $3.69 | Rake $0.24
Board: [2c 2d 2h 6d 7s]
Seat 1: Schlaumayer (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: bartemiysnat (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: Fearless98404 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: flemo9 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: LuvYourKids didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: sukmen folded before the Flop
Seat 7: shimar2 showed [Ah Ad] and won ($3.45) with a full house, Twos full of Aces
Seat 8: parik899 folded before the Flop
Seat 9: keldraco (button) showed [Ks Kd] and lost with a full house, Twos full of Kings


Is it a easily fold here?
KK: 22.6%
KK+: 77.4%
Even if his range is QQ+, AK, it only a coin flip.
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Re: folding kings to a 4bet

Postby chenghao » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:18 pm

you got use pokertracker (60 day free) or HEM(15 days free)?
together you can get like 75 days free for data mining softwares

at micro stakes (50 NL and below ) , 4 bet is very polarized ( very often someone who does this only has AKs , QQ +)

the only person i would fold KK to preflop is if a rock (characterized by low vp/pfr (somewhere along the line of 7/5)) 4bets me.

and anyway , if he has QQ / AA and i flat a 4bet , the money is going in on any non A board (which is like most boards).

very hard to avoid this sort of cold deck situation
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Re: folding kings to a 4bet

Postby keldraco » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:59 pm

i have no data on him. this is the 3rd hand for him on that table.
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Re: folding kings to a 4bet

Postby axel » Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:17 am

At 2NL with less than 100bb effective stack, are you sure the players there are only 4betting with KK+?
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Re: folding kings to a 4bet

Postby felixleong » Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:09 am

in low stakes, never fold KK preflop ~ in the long run u will see more QQ AK against u than u will see AA
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Re: folding kings to a 4bet

Postby xcaliblur » Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:13 pm

Folding Kings preflop is a statistical nightmare. You should NEVER fold kings preflop in low stakes.

For one thing, it is more probable that villain has hand like AK or QQ maybe even JJ or AQ. The statistical chance of someone having Aces to your Kings is so low that it warrants you not to fold KK preflop. Also on the rare chance that you ARE up against AA, you still have a 18% chance of winning.

Even Daniel Negreanu mentioned once in one of his book- you should NEVER fold kings preflop.

Doing that is actually -EV. The amount of times that you will win showdown far outvalues the times you get sucked out on or lose against AA.
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Re: folding kings to a 4bet

Postby iastate » Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:31 pm

In low stakes games, many players 4-bet with any pockets above 10 or A with a face card. The chances of you running into AA are very small.

Even in high stakes games, people don't usually fold kings to a 4-bet preflop.
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Re: folding kings to a 4bet

Postby gosubay » Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:53 pm

look at his stats
4bet range %? If it's 0.5% or less maybe i might be scared. Average stat should be between 1.5-2.5, aggro 4bet bluffers will have it above 3% range
3bet % - you can infer his strategy of raising and reraising more or less by looking at his 3bet stat. If it's 2% or less over a huge sample maybe i might consider folding KK

But as a general rule of thumb I don't fold KK headsup in a ring game.

However if it's like one guy raise you 3bet KK and some guy cold 4bets you in a FR game, maybe i might fold in such a situation (if his stats are tight enough)
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