Discussion regarding turning pro (online)

[sengkang]

I believe it is the dream of many players to be able to play poker (online) on a full-time basis. The flexible timing, zero income tax, max bonus from the government whenever they hand out something, and most importantly doing something that you really enjoy. But how successful do you have to be online before you will consider quitting your stable day job? For example, if you have a monthly paycheck before CPF of $3k. How much would you be grinding consistantly online in order to quit your day job? $4K, $6K, maybe $9K? Hopefully our pro-players can add some comments too.

[pokerace]

Sometime,a tourney already took up 8hr of my time.If we don't play mtt,there will be less fishes.To play only cash game,is not challenging enough for me.I play only part time only cos my family member don't like me to play full-time.To play how many hr to make enough,is individual but the bottom line still come back to bankroll management!If u try out playing 3 month,n can make$,is no harm to turn to be a pro!But better don't play on small site that can give u credit to play.I hope more online grinder can gather their view here.

[pcbuypc]

Hi there
Currently I'm playing full time online for almost a year and earning about $5K to $xx a month.
To be a full time online pro is not a very easy job, it come with real hard works and a lots more.

I was earning about $6K monthly before CPF and quit my job in 08 to start playing live poker. I bust out my bankroll for at least more than 3 times. All poker player will and should experience that. It is a kind of learning process. It will be very hard for a poker player that had so good tilt and bankroll management that did not bust their bankroll before, it will be almost impossible for a good poker player to achieve that.

Before you start off pro online, you should consider the following
1) Do you love Poker because you like the win in money or a game you love and want to beat it. (This is a important factor, if you like Poker because you like the win in money, the % of you tilting when u lose to a bad beat or bad run is higher.
If the other way, love Poker and want to beat the game, you tend to play the game in a very different approach and max the potential in yourself. It is like because it is money u dealing u tend to play poker a way that will earn u money and restrict the creative part in yourself.
By playing the 2nd approach, you find yourself try and error way to beat the game in every different spot, you might lose a lots by trying but the future you know what can or cannot be done. Tiger Wood once try with a different swing for at least a year and did not come with a win for a while then perfect it and of course, it is where he is now.
Money do come in handy for us but it should never not come in first when we play.

2) How good can you control the tilt factor of bad runs. I felt that this is important as sometime bad run can last up to 2 weeks or even 10 buyin lost in 1 session. Could you handle that kind of swing?

3) There are a lots of things to consider which is really very long to write but the above 2 are the most important factor for me

Things to do before you start off online poker full time and quit your job
1) Cash Game - Start off a bankroll with 50 buy in of a stake you can afford to lose and play 150K hands.
Example
50NL - 50 x $50 = $2500
Play for at least 30K hands and a winning player with a min bankroll till 40 buyin for your next level which mean $4000

100NL - 40 x $100 = $4000
Play for at least 40K hands and still a winning player with a min bankroll till 40 buyin for your next level which mean $8000

200NL - 40 x $200 = $8000
Keep doing that till you reach $150K hands

Take note that before moving up stake, you must have 40 buyin for the next level and play 30K for the current one.
After 150K hands you will know if you should play online poker a not

2) Online tournament
Have a bankroll of 120 buyin of a stake you will like to play.
Meaning you playing $10 MTT you should have a bankroll of $1200. Keep doing that and see move up buy in MTT when you cash big.
When you do cash big for example winning $5K from $10 MTT, you will cash out $3800 and leaving $2400 in your account which mean now you can play $20 MTT.

In short, cash out any extra winning from your starting bankroll x 2. Play at least 500 MTT and at if you have an average of positive $30/per hours of your ROI in MTT then you can consider playing fulltime MTT

3) SNG - Sorry not SNG pro so can't advise

To much to say, for the time being consider the above point, you can PM me, we can meet up for coffee and talk more. (To tired to type)

Cheer

[boymalap]

Yea , totally agree with pcbuypc,
Im a nsf planning to go fulltime in online poker playing MTTs & SnGs. For me :
1. Bankroll must be 25 buyins for 1 table SnGs.
1. Bankroll must be 50 Buyins for MTTs.
Must know the basic technical and fundamental aspects of poker,implied odds and pot odds.
Must be a winning player after 60 SnGs or MTTs.
Cash out profits unless you wanna move up stakes.

[sengkang]

Wow, thanks for the quick response and personal sharing.

Personally, I prefer to grind cash game full-time, with a few MTT now and then. That gives me full flexibility of time management as I can stop as soon as I hit my target and spend time on other stuffs.

It took me 3 years before I became a pofitable player. I now grind NL100 with average $2K monthly winnings. I am currently building my bankroll to move up to NL200 and NL400.

Tilt and varience are two of the most important issues poker players have to deal with. In Dec 2010, varience hit me real hard and coupled with tilt, I lost half my bankroll in 2 weeks. Fortunately I pulled through and my takings are going northwards once again.

pcbuypc - I am really surprised at your move in turning pro when your current takings start at the low end of $5K, which is less than what your job provides. Although I enjoy playing poker, money is also important as we all have to provide for our families. Thus, if I earn $3K and get $2K from playing poker part-time, I will never quit my day job unless I can get at least $5K from poker.

Looking forward for more views and comments from other kakis, especially the pros.

[pcbuypc]

Hi Sengkang

Was earning about $6K a month at a MMC and that not include the annual EXCO target bonus which is up to 20% of the annual income if all target hit.
Poker for me now does make a decent $5K to $XXXXX amount with no people issue, no bosses, no staff and so much flexibility (sorry does not want to disclose the max earning I ever had in a month)
Being a Exco member, couldn't stand the political aspects, draggers flying around almost every second. sigh..
Anyway at that time, it was like a 'no choice' to play poker for me. Too hard to explain anyway. Anyway I make the choice and not turning back.

Back to the moving up stake.
The above up stake climbing guide was a very very conservative one as you are trying to play full time online and not playing as a part time cash centre so I still employ you to keep to the 40-50 buyin before deciding to quit the job.
I felt that making a certain amt in a month does not mean you are a winning player, I believe it is the number of hands you play and still a winner over a certain number. So if I'm winning $2K per months over 5K hands, that doesn't mean I a winning player yet. Sometime it could be just the card rush and good run you had.
So my advise will be still play at least 30K hands of the current stake and win with a bankroll of 40 buyin of the next level. Even if you are winning with a total bankroll of 80 buyin of the next level but less than 30K hands, I will advise do not move up yet.

Another things to think about
Being a good or a great poker player.
The good player know the right and wrong of how to play poker but come short in following through with the play either it is because it is too risky or scary to them and they tend to forget the long run aspect of the game.
While the great player follow through with the play as they know that they may lose this current hand but in the long run mathematically that the correct play.
A good player will usually think about do they have the best hand at the certain street of play so much % of the time, but a great player will think 'Will they win the hand enough of the time'
These are 2 different approach of the game, think about it, I believe it will improve your game

Cheer

[Vinally]

amazing thread.

[valkyr]

Yea , totally agree with pcbuypc,
Im a nsf planning to go fulltime in online poker playing MTTs & SnGs. For me :
1. Bankroll must be 25 buyins for 1 table SnGs.
1. Bankroll must be 50 Buyins for MTTs.
Must know the basic technical and fundamental aspects of poker,implied odds and pot odds.
Must be a winning player after 60 SnGs or MTTs.
Cash out profits unless you wanna move up stakes.

This is highly unrealistic. u need at least 100 BIs for Single table SNGS
onwards of 200 BIs for MTTSNGS, ie 180 man sngs and 90 man sngs.
And 300+ BIs for mtts with a readiness to move down in stakes when you hit a bad downswing.
And 60 sngs or mtts means nothing statistically. You need 2k SNGs to have a true feel of where you are as a player and i would say 5k games for MTTs. Good players can easily go on 1k games downswing/breakeven and 100-150 BI downswings.

[Ps_grinder]

Thank u so much for the effort. I need those I hope it will gives me succes too cheers

I need help on 50/50 daredevil are u here???
Need some advice

[Ps_grinder]

Can someone advice me on this area??
I play 50/50 sng 12tables $7 x25 is $2100
Winning of how much I can withdraw??
And If I beat the game means I must have $4500 for 12t $15 games right
To next level??
How many games must I play to know whether I'm able to be full time anot ?

[kingpoker898]

for cash games how many hands?

[2RandomCards]

Found this post on BR management a while back; was highly recommended on their forum and I think it sounds pretty realistic.

http://www.pocketfives.com/blogs/jennifear/