Counting Odds While In A Game

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Counting Odds While In A Game

Postby Squirrel » Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:46 pm

Hi,

I'd like to know something is it really practical to count odds, such as hand odds or pot odds while actually playing? For example, if its your turn, u do the mental sums in your head won't it be easy for opponents to read your actions? And does counting outs actually help?

Thanks alot.
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Re: Counting Odds While In A Game

Postby felixleong » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:02 pm

Counting number of outs, figuring the % chance of your hand improving to become the best hand on the next street or so and figuring the given pot odds is fundamental yet very important.

To not let your opponent figure you for "taking time to think = counting outs etc", you can try to spend the same range of time on every point, maybe always think or pause 5-10 second before clicking on your mouse, unfortunately this advise is not practical when multi tabling.

Without knowing your estimated odds to improve against the pot odds to call, its impossible to determine if making the call has a positive expectation or not.

It maybe be time consuming and tiring but with a lot of practice, by a few months or maybe even 1/2 a year into it, you'll probably find it second nature.

Counting outs & Pot odds is purely mathematical, wait till you try figuring implied odds, which one may need lots of experience in making accurate judgments

Felix ^^
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Re: Counting Odds While In A Game

Postby vaevictis » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:42 pm

fundamental, yes its impt to know your odds and exact equity aganist a certain range of hands at most common situations.

In NL when u start playing aganist better players, you will almost never get the correct pot odds to call for your draws or to hit your made hand in future streets.

Thinking of implied odds + concept of position and the range of hands you put your opponent on should be your focus in general.

In terms of the practicality of counting outs in NL, i'd say its not exactly useful. Why?

Compare this situation. Standard good player raises UTG and You call on the button, and flop a weak flush draw with 9 outs.
Vs. Standard good player raises in CO and you call on the button and flop a weak flush draw with 9 outs.

You both have 9 outs in both situations, but your outs have different value in both situations. And your play with them may or may not be different.

Try thinking and solving this .
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Re: Counting Odds While In A Game

Postby Squirrel » Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:05 am

Hi thanks for your replies. But then if it takes me quite a while to calculate the odds, is it proper etiquette to keep the other players at the table waiting? What is a standard time u can take when its your turn, before making a move?

Thanks alot again
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Re: Counting Odds While In A Game

Postby chiku » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:01 am

For your question about the time on the table that you require on counting odds, are you referring to online play or live play?

For online play, there is no worry on the "etiquette" since they are going to limit the amount of time you get on each street with the timer anyway.

For live play, you don't really need to feel pressured to act within a specific amount of time as well. There are players who spend a whole load of time just spacing out and thinking about nothing in particular just so they get their opponents to ponder about what they could be holding when they actually already have the nuts in their hand. If you are going to spend that time counting outs, it would actually be more "legit" as compared, so to speak. Just make sure the people at your table aren't able to figure that you are counting outs.

As Felix said, counting outs will be second nature with more practice, and you'll be able to make a decision with a much much shorter time by then.
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Re: Counting Odds While In A Game

Postby Squirrel » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:50 pm

Sorry i was referring to during live play. I need 1 min just to figure outs, another min to calculate hand % and another min to calculate pot odds, so is it actually right to spend like almost 3 mins at your turn? Won't it make the game very long winded and boring then?

Thanks lots for your advice
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Re: Counting Odds While In A Game

Postby felixleong » Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:39 am

you just keep doing it hor, you will find a lot of similar situations there of which you will find it second nature and figuring the maths in a split second.

practice makes perfect

^_^
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