Who wins the pot?

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Who wins the pot?

Postby figoivey » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:19 am

I recently went for a home game and this is first time i came across this scenario. I was the button. I was heads up with the cutoff and this is what happened. He made a river bet against me and i called. He showed a pair that was good, immediately mucking his hand before i can muck mine. While i do know that if he mucked his hand without showing, it would have been my pot. However, if this is what happened, then whats the ruling? My opinion is that it should have been my pot, because by mucking at any point of time without ur opponent showing a weaker hand / mucking his hand, its a good as knowing ur hand is no good and giving it up. Would appreciate feedback on this. Thanks
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Re: Who wins the pot?

Postby PokerPolice » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:36 pm

This my 2 cents worth..
There are many different set of rules applied at poker rooms everywhere. However, most established poker room utilized standardize poker rulings laid down by TDA (Tournament Directors Association, USA, formed in 2007 by David Lamb, Matt Savage, Linda Johnson, Jan Fisher), usually for tournaments.

As for your scenario, it actually depends on the house rules. Usually, the ruling is, "the house has to pay only to the best winning hand". It may be the fault for the best hand to muck his hand too fast, but it is crucial that he did show his cards and dealer saw his cards that he had a winning hand before he mucked it. Unless you turn over to show u got a better hand than him, otherwise the best hand should always win the pot. Because if in the casino, his hand will be captured at CCTV to prove that he got a winning hand. But then, the player will should recieve a stern warning from the pit boss.

This is my view, and will also be my decision, if I am the house.
Last edited by PokerPolice on Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who wins the pot?

Postby figoivey » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:54 pm

however my understand in a casino is that ur hand is DEAD once its placed into the muck, and he mucked faced down not faced up
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Re: Who wins the pot?

Postby PokerPolice » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:13 pm

figoivey wrote:however my understand in a casino is that ur hand is DEAD once its placed into the muck, and he mucked faced down not faced up


In most cases, a mucked hand is usually declared a DEAD hand because one cannot retrieve the cards backed to verify. But if the cards has been shown to the dealer as well as to other players as the wnning hand before mucking it, the house has to pay to the winning hand. Because, the pit boss will ask the dealer as well as players if they had seen the winning cards before arriving to a decision.

Anyway bro, this is only my decision if i m the house. (Based on the best winning hands ruling) But others may dispute otherwise.
Last edited by PokerPolice on Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who wins the pot?

Postby MJFX » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:49 pm

The opponent can either opt to showdown or muck.
So ur question is can he muck face-up?
Answer is really not as complicated as we think.
The cards are live bcos its clearly visible and retrievable.
You can find the principle of the ruling here.
http://www.thehendonmob.com/tournament_ ... k_question
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Re: Who wins the pot?

Postby MJFX » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:53 pm

I forgot to add if its facedown, its the dealer's job to drag the cards into the muck. If not, u remind the dealer. Play safe!
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Re: Who wins the pot?

Postby PokerPolice » Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:25 pm

The logic is, the House simply cannot give the pot to the losing hands.

Here's the verdict regarding mucked cards from qualified TDs..

Matt
If the player’s cards are retrievable they will play if they are not that it is a dead hand. I would also warn the player that is he should not be throwing his cards as it could be ruled a dead hand in the future.

Roy
If the nuts are shown, even if it's slidin' across the table, the cards have been shown even if they end up in the muck. What you've said is the cards have been thrown on the table revealing the nuts. I'd still say to the player show your cards at showdown!

Luke
The cards speak, player has shown his winning hand face up revealing the nuts and therefore he is entitled to the pot (if it wasn’t split). The fact that the cards face up even in the muck is irrelevant as the winning hand has been shown for all to see and Player should not be penalised for being overzealous in his declaration. ( I would tell him to be less forceful when declaring in future).
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