Would you fold or call?

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Would you fold or call?

Postby MaTaKazer » Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:13 pm

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $10.00
UTG: $22.09
UTG+1: $4.15
MP: $5.54
Hero (MP+1): $12.44
LP: $11.38
CO: $9.16
BTN: $4.85
SB: $7.19

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has [Qd] [Qc]

UTG raises to $0.40, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.40, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold

Flop: ($0.95, 2 players) [4h] [4c] [5h]
Weird check by Villian who opened raise with 4BB UTG but did not cbet on such a flop. So, decided to lead up with small bet for some info.
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.55, UTG calls $0.55

Turn: ($2.05, 2 players) [5d] 5:diamond:
He called my flop bet. I am putting him on some mid PP maybe AKs. I bets for value
UTG checks, Hero bets $1.35, UTG calls $1.35

River: ($4.75, 2 players) [Tc]
UTG checks, Hero bets $2.60, UTG raises to $19.79 and is all-in, Hero ???
I didn't expect him to shove here. Maybe he had the nuts... 44 or 55 and slow played all the way.
Figured, the only hand I can beat is a busted flush draw, he might even have KK or AA as he raised UTG. Maybe his TT got there, which was what I was putting him on(some PP).

Or am I too tight?
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Re: Would you fold or call?

Postby Phuturist » Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:49 pm

for me i will donk call to find out his cards wahahahaha
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Re: Would you fold or call?

Postby MJFX » Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:58 pm

Fold, he has u beaten. Probably 45 or 56, yes TT likely. There is no good reason for him to chk raise u river without anything near the nuts.
I think u can better spot to bluff catch.
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Re: Would you fold or call?

Postby Phuturist » Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:28 pm

that's the diff between MJFX and me! :P
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Re: Would you fold or call?

Postby ThornTan » Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:47 pm

i would have checked the river... And u could also 3bet him preflop and shld be able to narrow down his hand range.
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Re: Would you fold or call?

Postby MaTaKazer » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:33 pm

Phuturist wrote:for me i will donk call to find out his cards wahahahaha

Don't really like to call this type of situation. if wrong will go tilt then probably lose much more $

MJFX wrote:Fold, he has u beaten. Probably 45 or 56, yes TT likely. There is no good reason for him to chk raise u river without anything near the nuts.
I think u can better spot to bluff catch.


Yeah, better spot next time, I figured.

ThornTan wrote:i would have checked the river... And u could also 3bet him preflop and shld be able to narrow down his hand range.


I thought a while whether to bet a not. Decided to bet as I could still extract value from A high and mid PP. Wasn't expecting any raise.
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Re: Would you fold or call?

Postby adrenalineJ84 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:29 am

Fold. I've had this happen a few times.. Villain will donk-call until hit his set.. or maybe he's slow-playing AA?
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Re: Would you fold or call?

Postby MJFX » Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:18 pm

ThornTan wrote:i would have checked the river... And u could also 3bet him preflop and shld be able to narrow down his hand range.


so what would you do after chk river? chk-call or chk fold?

adding my 5cts again. you cant really narrow down the hand range with a few hands 3betting preflop. i believe hero is a tight player and he didnt raise, so as not to become too predictable and not let villian put him on a premium range. its also easier to trap this way. im not saying its right or wrong, its just that this smooth call could be to balance his range. its only 1 hand, we don't know whether thats the intent and his perceived image. Having said that, i will 3 bet most of e time.

i don't like the chk river, you are missing a lot of value this way against hands that you beat which might actually call you. (which would go chk chk most times). i like the way hero phrased the narration " he didn't expect villian to shove there".. which really mean he was caught by surprise and he was pretty sure until that point he had the best hand.
Having said that, an observant/ smart villian may think the same way, ie he think hero think he has the best hand. a supposely "tight" hero bet 3 streets hence villian probably with the better hand went all in, expecting maximum value for his house and to get paid off by hero who most likely going to have overpair.
i suppose hero saw that through too and made a great laydown. well done.
Last edited by MJFX on Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Would you fold or call?

Postby axel » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:58 pm

MJFX: Hero is in position, so if he checks then it's showdown.
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Re: Would you fold or call?

Postby kr176 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:32 pm

My views on this hand, 3 bet pre......

As played, bet flop, check turn for pot control, bet/fold river. His line is very strong CR river, prob 44/55. Snap fold river....
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Re: Would you fold or call?

Postby MJFX » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:49 pm

axel wrote:MJFX: Hero is in position, so if he checks then it's showdown.


Thanks. Then the more i will value bet this spot.
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Re: Would you fold or call?

Postby ThornTan » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:30 pm

y would u wanna value bet on the river? the only hands that beat Villian who may call are JJ,AT, AK . Any 4 or 5 beats Hero and may shove u. AA, KK also beats Hero... TT even better most likely to shove back..
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Re: Would you fold or call?

Postby axel » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:25 pm

ThornTan wrote:y would u wanna value bet on the river? the only hands that beat Villian who may call are JJ,AT, AK . Any 4 or 5 beats Hero and may shove u. AA, KK also beats Hero... TT even better most likely to shove back..

If villian can have AT, he can have tons of AQ-AJ combo as well. It's highly unlikely that villian has a big pair given the action till the river, so a 1/3 to 1/2 pot value bet is definitely fine to get A high to call.

Of course, once you get checkraised on the river, you have no choice but to fold.
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Re: Would you fold or call?

Postby MJFX » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:06 pm

ThornTan wrote:y would u wanna value bet on the river? the only hands that beat Villian who may call are JJ,AT, AK . Any 4 or 5 beats Hero and may shove u. AA, KK also beats Hero... TT even better most likely to shove back..



Axel has the right answers wrt why value betting.
Btw, shoving AA-KK is as good as turning the hand into a bluff.
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