correct lay down??

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correct lay down??

Postby qwertman321 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:47 am

hi guys, guess its my first post at pokerkaki.... need some help in laying down hands.

Hand 1 :

Code: Select all
[flash=400,267]http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/flash/replayer.swf?pokerhandid=4137771[/flash]

or
http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/view.php/id/4137771

not sure if i made the right laydown but need some of your views. At this stage it is still kinda early in the tournament so i thought if i could just save up some of the chips and then make use of those chips in better spots. Oh ya, and becuz he limp in preflop, he might have pocket fours but im not sure why he made that pot size river bet.

Hand 2 :

Code: Select all
[flash=400,267]http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/flash/replayer.swf?pokerhandid=4137643[/flash]

or
http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/view.php/id/4137643

could i have folded this hand? when the flop comes i put him on quads. not really sure why i still do the donkey call on the river.
although its a little chips, but i nvr really like to "waste" my chips regardless of pot odds and stuff
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Re: correct lay down??

Postby sengkang » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:37 am

My humble opinion:

1st hand - ok to lay down, since you have contributed only minimum chips. I put him on a Q-full.

2nd hand - congratulations, you lost the minimum. Not many people can fold that hand, myself included, and villian did a good job of disguising his hand by slow-rolling and betting small.
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Re: correct lay down??

Postby qwertman321 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:01 am

alrite thx, appreciate the comments. btw do you know why the code thing is not working??
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Re: correct lay down??

Postby chenghao » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:46 am

on the 2nd hand , me thinks you not so sure bout your objective , is it chip accumulation or chip preservation ?

If its accumulation , you could bet the turn to make his pair fold or for value from a high hand. Then when you hit your Gin card on the turn , just bet for value , a fair share of 6x and Tx cards could give you action.
If its preservation , you could check / fold the turn as it offers you infinite odds to hit your 2

just my 2 cents
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Re: correct lay down??

Postby qwertman321 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:19 pm

The reason i did not bet on the turn is because i thought i was beat. but i still cannot manage to lay down at the river, thats the problem. not sure if its +EV if i keep making this type of calls, just trying to find some kakis opinion to make my laydown easier
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Closed

Postby XYtexas » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:52 pm

Closed
Last edited by XYtexas on Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: correct lay down??

Postby soulari- » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:12 pm

No reason to bet the 72o on the turn. You brought yourself in an awkward position but I would fold on river as played.

Hand 2 is a level from you right? Teach me how to put someone on quads lol
Postflop you played your hand terrible imo. You wont get called by a lesser hand on the flop when you bet. The better hands wont fold either so it's better to just check behind. On the turn you hit your gin card and you dont bet? Crazy... the two is a blank.
On the river you just call? Jump up,make a fistpump and push all your chips in the middle. There are so many hands to win from.

You didnt bet for value in both hands. You changed a weakish hand with showdown value into a bluff. Think about the reason you bet before you bet. Don't just bet because you can bet. Also I would make a note on you about a betsizing tell. Your small bets equals weakness.
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Re: correct lay down??

Postby valkyr » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:52 pm

first hand is a snap call at least. Raising can be considered if our opponent is russian
2nd hand check flop.
As played u get there on the turn and yet u do not bet to build the pot. river when he leads u are shoving for value there.

Imo u played both hands very badly
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Re: correct lay down??

Postby valkyr » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:56 pm

soulari- wrote:No reason to bet the 72o on the turn. You brought yourself in an awkward position but I would fold on river as played.

Hand 2 is a level from you right? Teach me how to put someone on quads lol
Postflop you played your hand terrible imo. You wont get called by a lesser hand on the flop when you bet. The better hands wont fold either so it's better to just check behind. On the turn you hit your gin card and you dont bet? Crazy... the two is a blank.
On the river you just call? Jump up,make a fistpump and push all your chips in the middle. There are so many hands to win from.

You didnt bet for value in both hands. You changed a weakish hand with showdown value into a bluff. Think about the reason you bet before you bet. Don't just bet because you can bet. Also I would make a note on you about a betsizing tell. Your small bets equals weakness.


for the first hand.
As the action goes it is obvious we must consider the fact that our 7 pair on the turn when checked to us is good. So we are betting here for value ( we get called by gutshots 4x + overcards+a highs[if we are playing micros]) Also we are betting to capitalize the money in the pot and fold out whatever equity share they have. These seem like very good reasons to me to bet instead of check.
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Re: correct lay down??

Postby xcaliblur » Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:43 pm

My own opinion:
1st hand: i would bet the flop to see where im at, but i guess in your case the turn is fine as well. flop is very dry and no one has shown strength preflop you might have the best hand at flop and win with a mediocre bet. At the river not much you can win, so i think id agree with the fold. Looking at board texture, there is no draw that villain can be calling your turn bet with, and for him to lead out a pot size bet on river is likely he is holding a Q or 7. Therefore you are calling to either pay him off or chop the pot. Better situations out there to spend your chips on IMO- just muck and lose the minimal investment.

2nd hand: I agree with some of the other comments. You played your hand weirdly. The 2 on the turn looks like a safe card and is in fact the gin card for your hand. There are not many hands that have you beat- think about it, is a raised pot preflop, and only hands that have you beat are TT, JJ, 62, T6, J6. Of all these we can eliminate the last 3 as it is highly unlikely villain will play with thrash hands like these (unless is some sort of maniac). I would continue betting turn and river, but if i get raised or bet into at river i will just call. There are many hands that you can get value out of: 6X, TJ,TQ,TK,TA, QQ,KK, AA.

In your scenario obvioulsy the laydown was correct, as you were beat, but situations like this is few and far between for you to be playing this passively. You should not ever assume villain has quads ><"
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Re: correct lay down??

Postby qwertman321 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:15 am

Okay okay.... Seems like all of you thought i was crazy playing hand 2 that way :D
Heres the reason why I played that hand that way. first, he did a min raise preflop, so, base on previous hands(100+) that i saw him play, he ONLY MIN RAISES with small pocket pair or suited connectors like 56,67. Secondly when the flop comes, he checked, but on my hud, its shows his cbet is 100%. Hence, instantly i put him on a monster. If he had something like 77,88,99 i would expect him to cbet at that flop likewise with hands like 56,67. The bet on the flop by me was just for information (in case i hit my hse , which i did unfortunately), the reason i bet tiny is because if he had decide to slow play his set, i would expect him to lead out on the turn or reraise big! If he had call and check the turn i would put him on quads , if he had min raise i would have put him on the boat. So when the turn came , i hit my boat and he CHECKS the turn , so i knew i was beat..... And hence i did not bet. But the river i did not manage to laydown my hand sadly....

This is the first time i played my full house like this ,i usually nvr slowplay any of my hands unless its quads or better. Let me know what you guys think ;)
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