Live hand... comment on my play

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Live hand... comment on my play

Postby suitedpairs29 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:34 pm

Help me out with this one ...

I was playing a 0.50/1 game the other day with my buddies and this hand came up. Its limped around to me in the BB and I look down at JJ and raise it up $7 more. I get called in 2 spots and we look at a 10h 8h 6c flop. I bet out $25 and get called by player UTG who loves chasing draws. Another player reraises all-in, who also likes draws and tends to overplay top pair, and I call with $45 behind. The other player calls all-in and he turns over Ah 7h for the gutshot straight draw and nut flush draw. The reraiser turns over 10x 8x for top two. Turn and river are both 9 and the A7 gets there. On the way back, one of my buddies told me that my call was horrible and that there wasnt any hands I was beating. When asked if he would fold Aces in the same spot, he also said no. I argued that Jacks and Aces, or any other overpair were pretty much worth the same in that situation. Anyways, Id like to know if my play was bad. If I could fold there with $45 left or could I have picked a better spot. Mind you that the pot was almost $100 at that point. Am I only beating a draw at this point or are two-pair and better the bottom range of hands that are reraising me?

Any and all comments / flames are very much valued. Thanks!
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Re: Live hand... comment on my play

Postby vaevictis » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:25 pm

if u lead out 25 with 45 left behind...its a standard call. Size your cbet that leaves you with options to fold.

Not a call that ill be happy to make...given this kind of board hits so much of calling ranges preflop, 2 pairs, straightdraws flushdraws and what not.
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Re: Live hand... comment on my play

Postby ohboy » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:26 pm

ok i thought about it a little, and AA and JJ are not the same there

QQ would have done the same against you, and AA beats it. JJ does not.
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Re: Live hand... comment on my play

Postby suitedpairs29 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:44 pm

ohboy wrote:ok i thought about it a little, and AA and JJ are not the same there

QQ would have done the same against you, and AA beats it. JJ does not.


None of the players in have the tricky streak to limp call with QQ or better in the positions i mentioned. If they did, more power to them. I just think that those hands are unlikely to be part of their ranges
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Re: Live hand... comment on my play

Postby DM101 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:50 pm

JJ is never good at preflop, especially in cash games. QQ, KK & AA easily dominated JJ preflop. But these are just in theory though. Reading your players personality & their betting styles play a vital part too. The $25 cbet was just a bait to test water.
The flop was bad for JJ as it showed a str8 and flush draw.
Besides flopping 2 pairs and a flush draw as described by you, 2 possibilities that the players might have hit their set and str8 draw too.

Should be an easy fold then. :D
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Re: Live hand... comment on my play

Postby suitedpairs29 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:23 pm

DM101 wrote:JJ is never good at preflop, especially in cash games. QQ, KK & AA easily dominated JJ preflop. But these are just in theory though. Reading your players personality & their betting style play a vital part too. The $25 cbet was just a bait to test water.
The flop was bad for JJ as it showed a str8 and flush draw.
Besides flopping 2 pairs and a flush draw as described by you, 2 possibilities that the players might have hit their set and str8 draw too.

Should be an easy fold then. :D


considering what you just mentioned, are you also throwing away QQ-AA at this spot as well? I just decided beforehand that with my stack and with all the limpers that once I got a 10-hi flop that I was gonna go broke. In my opinion, in donkathon live games, its just as likely for these guys to have draws as much as big hands
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Re: Live hand... comment on my play

Postby felixleong » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:43 pm

I would definitely call base on pot commitment level.

Before making the cbet on the flop I would ask myself if I'm committed or not, since betting out $25 is 1/3 my remaining stack, anytime if 30% or more of my initial stack will enter the pot I will almost never fold (showdown bounded).
well... unless I'm very certain via a good read I'm drawing dead ( example up against the nuts ).

Therefore making the Cbet I will definitely make the call to see the show down, the ranges can be very wide facing 2 opponents, stuffs like sets, 2 pairs, TPTPK and combo draws are the likely hands but your Jacks still has a couple of outs so even if its a mistake to call, it really isn't that bad after all ^_^
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Re: Live hand... comment on my play

Postby Belousov » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:19 am

Maybe I am a donkey, but this flop doesn't really seem right for a c-bet. This flop hits a wide variety of caller's hands, and in this situation if you check you will see the action and insta-muck. Also the c-bet gives a huge amount of equity for draws to push. If you have to c-bet, I know you like to be aggro, why not bet 13-15$. I Insta muck this even after your c-bet, You have to think you are up against two-pair, at least. As it turned out you put the last 45$ in with 14.6% equity. Which is ridiculously bad IMHO.

P.S. I think AA=JJ in this situation For anyone to flat call in this situation with QQ+ seems spewy bad.
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Re: Live hand... comment on my play

Postby ChanGs » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:36 am

mike is a donkey.
full blown, period.
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Re: Live hand... comment on my play

Postby ohboy » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:45 pm

mmm

i've played with the players mentioned here often, and i'm going to side with mike on this one.

i woulda check raised on flop, but if i were to take mike's line, a call is inevitable when the all-in comes.

in fact, i can't wait to get all my money in with this kind of board against this crowd.
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Re: Live hand... comment on my play

Postby Nicefingers » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:14 pm

the cbet was too much.
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Re: Live hand... comment on my play

Postby Nicefingers » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:16 pm

the cbet was too much. A call/raise + a reraise would have alarmed you that your hand is not the best anymore.
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Re: Live hand... comment on my play

Postby newbie » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:43 pm

yeah as alrd stated by the others, you basically pot-committed yourself with the cbet, which i dont understand.
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Re: Live hand... comment on my play

Postby Belousov » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:57 pm

If you are going to get it all in on this board a check/push would be a better line no doubt.
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