Interesting spot for QQ

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Interesting spot for QQ

Postby molaboy » Sat May 05, 2012 9:57 pm

home game .5/1

Villain 1 (MP) - a good thinking player but is losing a lot and really tilted due to the beats / eff 400BB

Villain 2 (LP) - Loose draw chaser player, loosing as well so i know he will push any draw / eff 275BB

I'm on BB cover both and playing TAG and mixing a bit, showed a couple bluffs as well as monsters..

PRE
6 limpers to me I raise 15 total, called by 5 spots. flop Tx2h7h.

FLOP (75ish)
I bet 45, VIllain 1 min raise to 90 (behind 290) and VIllain 2 (behind 180) calls back to me...

I'm stunned byt still feel my hand is still good. I'm more afraid of VIllain 1 here specially his stack. He may have set here but very unlikely to min raise with set on this spot knowing him, he is also tilting so i put him on a STR+FD combo or something. VIllain 2 for sure is on draw.
If they both share the hearts draw and Qh is with me for redraw I still feel comfortable.

I can fold and protect my winning (up 600 before the hand) or shove if my read is correct and worst case i have 20-30% eq except against a flopped set. i thought of calling but will just put us to a very bad spot on the turn and shove can push them out if they have a draw.

any thoughts???
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Re: Interesting spot for QQ

Postby Phuturist » Sat May 05, 2012 10:28 pm

errrr u didn't say what's your hand?

QQ?
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Re: Interesting spot for QQ

Postby molaboy » Sat May 05, 2012 10:32 pm

QxQh sorry
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Re: Interesting spot for QQ

Postby crshe » Sat May 05, 2012 10:58 pm

wow pretty deep for a .5/1 game.. where do you play?

did you go into this hand with a plan in mind for every street?

since u r oop and there are so many limpers.. either raise more or check and play postflop

flop seems good for u.. but ur flop bet is horrible..

when mp raises u and lp calls.. u can either 1) fold (if you think mp has 2pair++ u can fold here) or 2) shove as a draw blocker.
I don't think that mp is raising with a monster draw here.. a mp raise in such a spot is pretty polarised in the sense that it is either way ahead or way behind

1 point to note.. if you say that lp is shoving any draw and his eff is 275bb.. why would he flat a $90 bet with a draw? so maybe he has a made hand and wants value from callers behind(you) ?

my 2 cents :)
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Re: Interesting spot for QQ

Postby molaboy » Sat May 05, 2012 11:11 pm

crshe wrote:did you go into this hand with a plan in mind for every street?

yup. bet hard with overpair on a not so wet wet wet board. standard for a loose game.

crshe wrote:since u r oop and there are so many limpers.. either raise more or check and play postflop

i may not agree here.

checking here is horrible... maybe if i have 22 but never QQ, thats too scared..
raise more eliminates most weak hands and will be called or raise my better or set mining hands..

crshe wrote:but ur flop bet is horrible..

pls elaborate.. 2/3ish pot CB with overpair on a drawy board seems standard to me

crshe wrote:1 point to note.. if you say that lp is shoving any draw and his eff is 275bb.. why would he flat a $90 bet with a draw? so maybe he has a made hand and wants value from callers behind(you) ?

i agree but knowing him, my read is solid.
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Re: Interesting spot for QQ

Postby axel » Sun May 06, 2012 5:56 pm

molaboy wrote:
crshe wrote:did you go into this hand with a plan in mind for every street?

yup. bet hard with overpair on a not so wet wet wet board. standard for a loose game.
Yeah bet hard is correct.
crshe wrote:since u r oop and there are so many limpers.. either raise more or check and play postflop

i may not agree here.

checking here is horrible... maybe if i have 22 but never QQ, thats too scared..

raise more eliminates most weak hands and will be called or raise my better or set mining hands..
Raising for value is correct, but you have to prepare to let go postflop depending on action.
crshe wrote:but ur flop bet is horrible..

pls elaborate.. 2/3ish pot CB with overpair on a drawy board seems standard to me
You said bet hard previously, so why not bet closer to pot if people will call with worse?
crshe wrote:1 point to note.. if you say that lp is shoving any draw and his eff is 275bb.. why would he flat a $90 bet with a draw? so maybe he has a made hand and wants value from callers behind(you) ?

i agree but knowing him, my read is solid.
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Re: Interesting spot for QQ

Postby molaboy » Sun May 06, 2012 8:10 pm

thanks for all the response but lets focus on the current action (PRE and Flop CB for me is standard) im more concern on weighing the push or fold here...
at that point i can see myself flipping with combo draw and way behind with set and 2 pairs, i estimate my equity around 30%.
with the pot already 300ish and villain1 has 290 behind and villain2 with 180, so its around 2.5:1 to me if I shove and both call, its close to me..

damn 2plus2 is down currently, can really fish some good math on this kind of spots there.
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Re: Interesting spot for QQ

Postby gosubay » Sun May 06, 2012 11:23 pm

calling and shoving a blank turn may be a better idea. lowers your variance too. I think vs the both of them your QQ isn't doing too well so I don't really like to shove Flop and it's high variance. so i b/c F and shove blank Turn or I fold right away. Of course i c/f on a flush completing turn and straight turns like a J or a 6 are quite tricky to play.
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Re: Interesting spot for QQ

Postby gosubay » Sun May 06, 2012 11:25 pm

and given your read that you think Villain 1 is on a draw given his bet sizing, then I think my suggested play is the best line. shipping flop just gets you flipping
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Re: Interesting spot for QQ

Postby molaboy » Mon May 07, 2012 6:49 am

thanks.. i did folded..
but still feels there is some merit to shoving because we have some fold equity as well.

folding/shoving > calling because we are putting our cards face up and there so many turn scary cards, he can also have AhKh here.
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Re: Interesting spot for QQ

Postby axel » Mon May 07, 2012 11:05 pm

You want fold equity when you want your opponent to fold a better hand, which I doubt he will fold anything which beats QQ.
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